3 ms·

The example of the Netherlands is a good one. When people say or think 'the Netherlands', most of the time (about 99%) they mean the country on the European con

The example of the Netherlands is a good one. When people say or think 'the Netherlands', most of the time (about 99%) they mean the country on the European continent in the Schengen area bordered by Belgium and Germany, but there is also a bit of colonial legacy lingering in the Caribbean in the form of overseas territories that are formally part of our kingdom: https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/47796 https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/47796 So if you say 'all Dutch addresses have a postcode', then this is true for 99.999% of the addresses in the country proper (100% for all formally defined addresses), but you won't find any in the Caribbean island of Saba which is part of the kingdom.

j16sdiz 4y ago
Is Alaska part of America? How about Hawaii?
- zinekeller 4y ago
  No, this is not the equivalent question. The more appropriate one for US is Puerto Rico or even US Virgin Islands.
  - DoreenMichele 4y ago
    Or Guam, among others: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territories_of_the_United_States https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territories_of_the_United_St...
  - JJMcJ 4y ago
    Each of the territories have slightly different statuses. The Commonwealth of Puerto Rico is "closer" to being like a state than any of the others.
    - JJMcJ 4y ago
      Learned that during the GW Bush administration, the Federal Government was ordered to interact with the government of Puerto Rico, as much as with possible, in the same way as an equivalent interaction with a state government. So it is closer.
- afiori 4y ago
  A discussion of all the various territories of the US https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASSOQDQvVLU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASSOQDQvVLU
- ChrisMarshallNY 4y ago
  I think Greenland is part of Denmark. Don’t forget administrative districts, like Guam, or Puerto Rico. Tokyo has a “grid-based” street addressing system, that I never fully understood. There are streets with no name, there (wasn’t that a U2 song?). I find that long/lat (don’t forget the Southern Hemisphere) is about the only universal constant. If I am writing software that has a focus on just one nation, that helps a lot, but I need to keep in mind, that I may want to expand it. Normalizing time, across the International Date Line, or Prime Meridian, is also fun (Daylight Savings makes this fun. India has a time zone that has a 30-minute component).
  - a_c 4y ago
    Regarding japanese addresses, you can either see blocks as unnamed spaces between streets, or streets as unnamed spaces between blocks. https://www.ted.com/talks/derek_sivers_weird_or_just_different https://www.ted.com/talks/derek_sivers_weird_or_just_differe...
  - JJMcJ 4y ago
    Greenland now has a semi-autonomous status under the Danish monarch, so not part of Denmark. So it is similar to the former Dutch colonies in the Caribbean in that respect. And there are also +45 minute time zones. Not just India. Including one zone in Australia, and Newfoundland in Canada. Here is a map: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4b/Solar_time_vs_standard_time.png/1200px-Solar_time_vs_standard_time.png https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4b/So... Look at it and tremble.
- apendleton 4y ago
  As in the article, I think it depends to some extent on what question you're asking. "What is the population of the US?" is almost definitely intended to include Alaska and Hawaii, but if someone asks "what is the geographic center of the US," they probably intend for the answer to be something in South Dakota, not the point off the coast of British Columbia that you get if you include Alaska and Hawaii, or the point out in the middle of the Pacific if you include Guam, etc.
- JJMcJ 4y ago
  Politically they are two of fifty states of the United States, and on an equal footing with the other 48. Geographically, Alaska is part of North America, and Hawaii isn't.
jorams 4y ago
And depending on what you care about, this gets even more complicated. Some of the territories in the Carribean are part of the country of the Netherlands that you linked to (Bonaire, Sint Eustatius, Saba), while there are others that are separate countries part of the Kingdom of the Netherlands (Aruba, Curaçao, Sint Maarten). Some things are matters of the kingdom, while others are matters of the country. For example, those other countries are not part of the European Union, but their citizens are citizens of the European Union since that's a matter of the Kingdom.
- eesmith 4y ago
  A couple of years ago I wondered if any chocolate was made from EU-grown cacao, since French Guiana in South America is part of the EU. Wasn't really able to find any. Some asylum seekers go to French Guiana hoping to get to France that way. It's not an easy option - https://www.infomigrants.net/en/post/28188/french-guiana-a-new-migrant-gateway-to-france-buckles-under-pressure https://www.infomigrants.net/en/post/28188/french-guiana-a-n... and https://www.thenewhumanitarian.org/photo-feature/2021/2/3/french-guiana-cuba-migrants-EU-asylum-life-in-limbo https://www.thenewhumanitarian.org/photo-feature/2021/2/3/fr... . ("Rent is high, and most food and basic necessities are imported from Europe, at a price.") Not easy reads.
jillesvangurp 4y ago
The Netherlands has a more fun example: Baarle Nassau. Which is a weird city where parts of the city are Belgian enclaves. It even has nesting of exclaves and enclaves. And of course some houses have doors in multiple countries, which makes delivering mail and figuring out taxes interesting.
- Freak_NL 4y ago
  He shows that in the article too, but it's really just a historical curiosity with little impact on day to day living beyond a few trifles. Mail and taxes have been solved long ago; all dwellings have a 'main' front door which determines which country's laws and taxes apply — it's not something that changes arbitrarily. It's reportedly great for tourism though.
freyfogle 4y ago
Yes, lots of geoweird things about the Netherlands. See: https://twitter.com/OpenCage/status/1511722717476700163 https://twitter.com/OpenCage/status/1511722717476700163

j16sdiz 4y ago

Is Alaska part of America? How about Hawaii?

zinekeller 4y ago
No, this is not the equivalent question. The more appropriate one for US is Puerto Rico or even US Virgin Islands.
- DoreenMichele 4y ago
  Or Guam, among others: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territories_of_the_United_States https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territories_of_the_United_St...
- JJMcJ 4y ago
  Each of the territories have slightly different statuses. The Commonwealth of Puerto Rico is "closer" to being like a state than any of the others.
  - JJMcJ 4y ago
    Learned that during the GW Bush administration, the Federal Government was ordered to interact with the government of Puerto Rico, as much as with possible, in the same way as an equivalent interaction with a state government. So it is closer.
afiori 4y ago
A discussion of all the various territories of the US https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASSOQDQvVLU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASSOQDQvVLU
ChrisMarshallNY 4y ago
I think Greenland is part of Denmark. Don’t forget administrative districts, like Guam, or Puerto Rico. Tokyo has a “grid-based” street addressing system, that I never fully understood. There are streets with no name, there (wasn’t that a U2 song?). I find that long/lat (don’t forget the Southern Hemisphere) is about the only universal constant. If I am writing software that has a focus on just one nation, that helps a lot, but I need to keep in mind, that I may want to expand it. Normalizing time, across the International Date Line, or Prime Meridian, is also fun (Daylight Savings makes this fun. India has a time zone that has a 30-minute component).
- a_c 4y ago
  Regarding japanese addresses, you can either see blocks as unnamed spaces between streets, or streets as unnamed spaces between blocks. https://www.ted.com/talks/derek_sivers_weird_or_just_different https://www.ted.com/talks/derek_sivers_weird_or_just_differe...
- JJMcJ 4y ago
  Greenland now has a semi-autonomous status under the Danish monarch, so not part of Denmark. So it is similar to the former Dutch colonies in the Caribbean in that respect. And there are also +45 minute time zones. Not just India. Including one zone in Australia, and Newfoundland in Canada. Here is a map: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4b/Solar_time_vs_standard_time.png/1200px-Solar_time_vs_standard_time.png https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4b/So... Look at it and tremble.
apendleton 4y ago
As in the article, I think it depends to some extent on what question you're asking. "What is the population of the US?" is almost definitely intended to include Alaska and Hawaii, but if someone asks "what is the geographic center of the US," they probably intend for the answer to be something in South Dakota, not the point off the coast of British Columbia that you get if you include Alaska and Hawaii, or the point out in the middle of the Pacific if you include Guam, etc.
JJMcJ 4y ago
Politically they are two of fifty states of the United States, and on an equal footing with the other 48. Geographically, Alaska is part of North America, and Hawaii isn't.

jorams 4y ago

And depending on what you care about, this gets even more complicated. Some of the territories in the Carribean are part of the country of the Netherlands that you linked to (Bonaire, Sint Eustatius, Saba), while there are others that are separate countries part of the Kingdom of the Netherlands (Aruba, Curaçao, Sint Maarten). Some things are matters of the kingdom, while others are matters of the country. For example, those other countries are not part of the European Union, but their citizens are citizens of the European Union since that's a matter of the Kingdom.

eesmith 4y ago
A couple of years ago I wondered if any chocolate was made from EU-grown cacao, since French Guiana in South America is part of the EU. Wasn't really able to find any. Some asylum seekers go to French Guiana hoping to get to France that way. It's not an easy option - https://www.infomigrants.net/en/post/28188/french-guiana-a-new-migrant-gateway-to-france-buckles-under-pressure https://www.infomigrants.net/en/post/28188/french-guiana-a-n... and https://www.thenewhumanitarian.org/photo-feature/2021/2/3/french-guiana-cuba-migrants-EU-asylum-life-in-limbo https://www.thenewhumanitarian.org/photo-feature/2021/2/3/fr... . ("Rent is high, and most food and basic necessities are imported from Europe, at a price.") Not easy reads.

jillesvangurp 4y ago

The Netherlands has a more fun example: Baarle Nassau. Which is a weird city where parts of the city are Belgian enclaves. It even has nesting of exclaves and enclaves. And of course some houses have doors in multiple countries, which makes delivering mail and figuring out taxes interesting.

Freak_NL 4y ago
He shows that in the article too, but it's really just a historical curiosity with little impact on day to day living beyond a few trifles. Mail and taxes have been solved long ago; all dwellings have a 'main' front door which determines which country's laws and taxes apply — it's not something that changes arbitrarily. It's reportedly great for tourism though.

freyfogle 4y ago

Yes, lots of geoweird things about the Netherlands. See: https://twitter.com/OpenCage/status/1511722717476700163 https://twitter.com/OpenCage/status/1511722717476700163