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CF SRE team need to rethink their published SLA of 100%. This is not reasonable. https://www.cloudflare.com/business-sla/ https://www.cloudflare.com/business-sl

CF SRE team need to rethink their published SLA of 100%. This is not reasonable. https://www.cloudflare.com/business-sla/ https://www.cloudflare.com/business-sla/

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
subvarad 4y ago
I completely can understand your emotion. But even the top CDNs can have outages of some form or the other. If site uptime is important, check out https://www.cdnreserve.com/ https://www.cdnreserve.com/ - it's built on the design principle that the likelihood of two separate platforms having an outage at the same time is close to zero.
arccy 4y ago
that just means they're willing to pay for the marketing number, not that they will actually achieve it
stn_za 4y ago
Yep, I'd promise 99.95 at a stretch, never 100%. They are not being honest with themselves here
- latch 4y ago
  I'm not sure you and your parent understand what an SLA means. It's an agreement that, when broken, incurs a penalty. They aren't saying they guarantee 100% uptime. They're saying they'll pay you for any downtime. It's literally the 3rd paragraph: > 1.2 Penalties. If the Service fails to meet the above service level, the Customer will receive a credit equal to the result of the Service Credit calculation in Section 6 of this SLA. (Most people I know consider them meaningless marketing BS that's really just meant to trick people or satisfy some make-work checkbox)
  - greyface- 4y ago
    > They aren't saying they guarantee 100% uptime > Cloudflare ("Company") commits to provide a level of service for Business Customers demonstrating: [...] 100% Uptime. The Service will serve Customer Content 100% of the time without qualification. This is a legal commitment to provide 100% uptime. They are guaranteeing 100% uptime and defining penalties for failing to meet that guarantee. The fact that a penalty is defined does not stop it from being a guarantee.
    - brokenkebab2 4y ago
      Looks like it supports parent opinion: commit - bind to a certain course if policy. It's legal obligation, not a statement about guarantees in physical world (like "this alloy won't melt below t°C")
    - e1g 4y ago
      No, this SLA is a legal commitment to give you credits when Service uptime falls below a certain threshold. The threshold could be anything - 99%, 50%, 100%, etc. Importantly, Cloudflare is not under a legal obligation to provide the Service at or above the agreed threshold, it's under a legal obligation to give you Credits when the Service uptime is below that threshold. "Service Credits are Customer’s sole and exclusive remedy for any violation of this SLA."
    - chrisseaton 4y ago
      > This is a legal commitment to provide 100% uptime. They are guaranteeing 100% uptime I don't think you know what a guarantee is. For example when you buy a new car you get a guarantee that it won't break down. Are they claiming it won't break down? No, of course not. What a guarantee means is that they'll fix it or compensate you if it does.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
shric 4y ago
An SLA of 100% simply means you agree to compensate your customers (as specified, usually with credit) if your service is down at all, nothing more. Also, SRE here but not for Cloudflare -- I've never seen SREs directly involved in externally published SLAs, they usually come from legal. We deal with SLOs on more fine grained SLIs than overall uptime
- codethief 4y ago
  > SLA […] SRE […] SLOs […] SLIs I made it to SLA (which I believe stands for service level agreement). What do the other abbreviations stand for?
  - shric 4y ago
    SRE - Site Reliability Engineer (a term Google came up with that's been adopted elsewhere) Google defined it approximately as what happens when you apply software engineering practices to what was traditionally an operations function. SLO - Service Level Objective - the service level you strive for. If it's higher you have room for experimentation, etc. SLI - Service Level Indicator - the actual metric(s) you use to measure a service level (latency, error rate, throughput, etc.)
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - nsheridan 4y ago
    SLA - correct. That’s the contract between the operator and the users which describes the penalties for not meeting agreed-upon SLO SLO - service level objective, the stated availability (or latency or durability etc) of the service. Usually expressed as a value over a period of time (e.g 99.9% availability as measured over a moving 30 average). The SLO is measured by the SLI. SLI - service level indicator. Simply, the direct measurement of the service (i.e metrics) SRE - Site Reliability Engineer, usually a member of a team who is responsible for the continued availability of the service and the poor sap who gets paged when it breaches SLO or has an outage or other impactful event.
  - KarlKode 4y ago

CF SRE team need to rethink their published SLA of 100%. This is not reasonable. https://www.cloudflare.com/business-sla/ https://www.cloudflare.com/business-sla/

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

subvarad 4y ago

I completely can understand your emotion. But even the top CDNs can have outages of some form or the other. If site uptime is important, check out https://www.cdnreserve.com/ https://www.cdnreserve.com/ - it's built on the design principle that the likelihood of two separate platforms having an outage at the same time is close to zero.

arccy 4y ago

that just means they're willing to pay for the marketing number, not that they will actually achieve it

stn_za 4y ago

Yep, I'd promise 99.95 at a stretch, never 100%. They are not being honest with themselves here

latch 4y ago
I'm not sure you and your parent understand what an SLA means. It's an agreement that, when broken, incurs a penalty. They aren't saying they guarantee 100% uptime. They're saying they'll pay you for any downtime. It's literally the 3rd paragraph: > 1.2 Penalties. If the Service fails to meet the above service level, the Customer will receive a credit equal to the result of the Service Credit calculation in Section 6 of this SLA. (Most people I know consider them meaningless marketing BS that's really just meant to trick people or satisfy some make-work checkbox)
- greyface- 4y ago
  > They aren't saying they guarantee 100% uptime > Cloudflare ("Company") commits to provide a level of service for Business Customers demonstrating: [...] 100% Uptime. The Service will serve Customer Content 100% of the time without qualification. This is a legal commitment to provide 100% uptime. They are guaranteeing 100% uptime and defining penalties for failing to meet that guarantee. The fact that a penalty is defined does not stop it from being a guarantee.
  - brokenkebab2 4y ago
    Looks like it supports parent opinion: commit - bind to a certain course if policy. It's legal obligation, not a statement about guarantees in physical world (like "this alloy won't melt below t°C")
  - e1g 4y ago
    No, this SLA is a legal commitment to give you credits when Service uptime falls below a certain threshold. The threshold could be anything - 99%, 50%, 100%, etc. Importantly, Cloudflare is not under a legal obligation to provide the Service at or above the agreed threshold, it's under a legal obligation to give you Credits when the Service uptime is below that threshold. "Service Credits are Customer’s sole and exclusive remedy for any violation of this SLA."
  - chrisseaton 4y ago
    > This is a legal commitment to provide 100% uptime. They are guaranteeing 100% uptime I don't think you know what a guarantee is. For example when you buy a new car you get a guarantee that it won't break down. Are they claiming it won't break down? No, of course not. What a guarantee means is that they'll fix it or compensate you if it does.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]

shric 4y ago

An SLA of 100% simply means you agree to compensate your customers (as specified, usually with credit) if your service is down at all, nothing more. Also, SRE here but not for Cloudflare -- I've never seen SREs directly involved in externally published SLAs, they usually come from legal. We deal with SLOs on more fine grained SLIs than overall uptime

codethief 4y ago
> SLA […] SRE […] SLOs […] SLIs I made it to SLA (which I believe stands for service level agreement). What do the other abbreviations stand for?
- shric 4y ago
  SRE - Site Reliability Engineer (a term Google came up with that's been adopted elsewhere) Google defined it approximately as what happens when you apply software engineering practices to what was traditionally an operations function. SLO - Service Level Objective - the service level you strive for. If it's higher you have room for experimentation, etc. SLI - Service Level Indicator - the actual metric(s) you use to measure a service level (latency, error rate, throughput, etc.)
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- nsheridan 4y ago
  SLA - correct. That’s the contract between the operator and the users which describes the penalties for not meeting agreed-upon SLO SLO - service level objective, the stated availability (or latency or durability etc) of the service. Usually expressed as a value over a period of time (e.g 99.9% availability as measured over a moving 30 average). The SLO is measured by the SLI. SLI - service level indicator. Simply, the direct measurement of the service (i.e metrics) SRE - Site Reliability Engineer, usually a member of a team who is responsible for the continued availability of the service and the poor sap who gets paged when it breaches SLO or has an outage or other impactful event.
- KarlKode 4y ago