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>Google's "iron grip" on the web mostly boils down to Chrome No? Google's grip on the web comes from their near-monopoly levels between search, email, docs, ma

by wyre 4y ago

>Google's "iron grip" on the web mostly boils down to Chrome No? Google's grip on the web comes from their near-monopoly levels between search, email, docs, maps, advertising, Android, classroom, and everything in between. Chrome is the icing on the cake that strengthens their entire ecosystem. Google was an internet superpower before they released Chrome in 2008. >the market says that Apple's approach is much more lucrative. You're absolutely right, Apple makes more money than Google, but I find Google to be more dangerous than Apple. Revenue =/= Danger. At the end of the day Apple is a hardware company competing with other HW companies so they are beholden to their branding as the most luxury/conscientious/privacy/hardware/etc-focused company and create lock-in through synergy between their products. Compared to Google I don't think your examples of Apple appropriating public infrastructure is accurate. Google offers all of those services, in addition to others that are relied upon much more. Search is used by 92.5% of users [1] and that gives them power to do nearly whatever they want with how people consume and find information. Combined with their data collection abilities and AI I'm surprised there hasn't been any scandals or leaks around data manipulation. Amazon and Google's potential for misuse or power terrify me in ways that Apple doesn't even come close. [1]https://gs.statcounter.com/search-engine-market-share https://gs.statcounter.com/search-engine-market-share

smoldesu 4y ago
> Google was an internet superpower before they released Chrome in 2008. Okay, so how exactly do they pose a threat to the internet and how do you propose we regulate it? Google is certainly no saint, but their liability to protect the privacy of their millions of users' data is exactly the same as Apple. Hell, same goes to Amazon: if you asked most people if they preferred to have their Amazon info leaked or their iCloud leaked, and I think most people would jump at the chance to get their shopping info and Twitch history doxxed. Apple owns all of the data these companies collect and then some. > At the end of the day Apple is a hardware company [...] so they are beholden to their branding as the most luxury/conscientious/privacy/hardware/etc-focused company and create lock-in through synergy between their products. Right, but as a hardware company offering software services, they are also beholden to making them play nice with others. That means accepting common, secure chat standards when people make them, adopting the open-source graphics API that you contributed to, and not using proprietary connectors on their phones that are used on literally no other device on the planet. You know, common sense stuff. Regulation can help fix these things, and give the consumer what they deserve with zero potential to meaningfully harm Apple in the long-run. > Search is used by 92.5% of users [1] and that gives them power to do nearly whatever they want with how people consume and find information. Apparently Apple doesn't see anything wrong with that, since they're happy to leave Google as the default search on Spotlight, so long as Google writes them a fat paycheck in exchange for violating user privacy. It's the under-the-table deals like this that are prime examples for why all of these companies deserve strict regulation on data management. Furthermore, I think you're missing the scale of the figures I posted: Google is an ad company, and their entire advertising revenue is overshadowed by one of Apple's side-hustles (not Airpods, not iPhone, not Mac, not SaaS subscriptions). That's a sign that something is terribly wrong here, and I don't think you can make a reasonable argument otherwise. > Combined with their data collection abilities and AI I'm surprised there hasn't been any scandals or leaks around data manipulation. Again, which is worse than Apple how? Apple also can collect all of the data off your phone, encrypt it, then send it back to their servers. They regularly do, even with analytics turned off. On top of that, they can get all this data off your Mac, too, which also regularly phones home as soon as you connect it to a personally identifying iCloud account. Apple publicly admit that they cut out the middleman and just directly process data for the CCP now. iCloud servers operate on Chinese-owned servers operated in government-owned datacenters. Who's to say they don't do the same thing in the US, with more smoke and mirrors?
- wyre 4y ago
  If you're not able to see Google's potential as a threat to the internet I don't think I'll be able to help you see that. I'll say Google owns way more data on us than Apple does and invests heavily into learning from this data for confidential reasons. It's bigger than data leaking. What if Google wanted to pull psychological targeting similar to Facebook's Cambridge Analytica scandal? Apple isn't in a position that would allow them to do that. Its above my paygrade to be proposing how our data should be regulated. It's not going to be enough, whatever it is. Currently, it seems like what is happening is regulatory capture to weaken Apple so Google, Meta, etc can harvest more data from iphones while staying untouched. I noticed you were comparing Googles advertising income to the revenue of the App store which aren't equatable factors but I didn't bring it up but I'm not trying to argue that Apple's tax is just or anything like that.

by wyre 4y ago

smoldesu 4y ago

> Google was an internet superpower before they released Chrome in 2008. Okay, so how exactly do they pose a threat to the internet and how do you propose we regulate it? Google is certainly no saint, but their liability to protect the privacy of their millions of users' data is exactly the same as Apple. Hell, same goes to Amazon: if you asked most people if they preferred to have their Amazon info leaked or their iCloud leaked, and I think most people would jump at the chance to get their shopping info and Twitch history doxxed. Apple owns all of the data these companies collect and then some. > At the end of the day Apple is a hardware company [...] so they are beholden to their branding as the most luxury/conscientious/privacy/hardware/etc-focused company and create lock-in through synergy between their products. Right, but as a hardware company offering software services, they are also beholden to making them play nice with others. That means accepting common, secure chat standards when people make them, adopting the open-source graphics API that you contributed to, and not using proprietary connectors on their phones that are used on literally no other device on the planet. You know, common sense stuff. Regulation can help fix these things, and give the consumer what they deserve with zero potential to meaningfully harm Apple in the long-run. > Search is used by 92.5% of users [1] and that gives them power to do nearly whatever they want with how people consume and find information. Apparently Apple doesn't see anything wrong with that, since they're happy to leave Google as the default search on Spotlight, so long as Google writes them a fat paycheck in exchange for violating user privacy. It's the under-the-table deals like this that are prime examples for why all of these companies deserve strict regulation on data management. Furthermore, I think you're missing the scale of the figures I posted: Google is an ad company, and their entire advertising revenue is overshadowed by one of Apple's side-hustles (not Airpods, not iPhone, not Mac, not SaaS subscriptions). That's a sign that something is terribly wrong here, and I don't think you can make a reasonable argument otherwise. > Combined with their data collection abilities and AI I'm surprised there hasn't been any scandals or leaks around data manipulation. Again, which is worse than Apple how? Apple also can collect all of the data off your phone, encrypt it, then send it back to their servers. They regularly do, even with analytics turned off. On top of that, they can get all this data off your Mac, too, which also regularly phones home as soon as you connect it to a personally identifying iCloud account. Apple publicly admit that they cut out the middleman and just directly process data for the CCP now. iCloud servers operate on Chinese-owned servers operated in government-owned datacenters. Who's to say they don't do the same thing in the US, with more smoke and mirrors?

wyre 4y ago
If you're not able to see Google's potential as a threat to the internet I don't think I'll be able to help you see that. I'll say Google owns way more data on us than Apple does and invests heavily into learning from this data for confidential reasons. It's bigger than data leaking. What if Google wanted to pull psychological targeting similar to Facebook's Cambridge Analytica scandal? Apple isn't in a position that would allow them to do that. Its above my paygrade to be proposing how our data should be regulated. It's not going to be enough, whatever it is. Currently, it seems like what is happening is regulatory capture to weaken Apple so Google, Meta, etc can harvest more data from iphones while staying untouched. I noticed you were comparing Googles advertising income to the revenue of the App store which aren't equatable factors but I didn't bring it up but I'm not trying to argue that Apple's tax is just or anything like that.