7 ms·

I kinda feel like VR is still in the "Should I get an Amiga? Or an Atari? Or a TRS80? Or a ZX81? Or an Apple II?" stage. One day it'll end up consolidated into

I kinda feel like VR is still in the "Should I get an Amiga? Or an Atari? Or a TRS80? Or a ZX81? Or an Apple II?" stage. One day it'll end up consolidated into some equivalent of Windows/Mac/Linux, probably categorised into the same sort of "business/professionals", "artists/creatives", and "geeks/tinkerers" approximate major demographics. If you need some hints about which platform(s) will "win", keep an eye on what I buy. And avoid them. I have a GearVR/S6Edge - on a shelf with my Apple Newton, Sinclair ZX80, and Betamax video recorder. I think perhaps my only technology win is the turntable I bought in 1985 and still use...

lotophage 4y ago
You needed an Amiga to play Dactyl Nightmare back in the day,IIRC.
- thefourthchime 4y ago
  That and “Altered State”
  - bigiain 4y ago
    And lets face it, none of the other platforms ever had a Guru Meditation Error
    - oblio 4y ago
      It caught on later: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guru_Meditation#Legacy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guru_Meditation#Legacy
ckz 4y ago
Tangent: You might appreciate the premise of "harbinger customers"[1]. The theory is that there actually are consumers who are a bit out of sync with the collective and do indeed consistently value/buy products that lose out. I suspect I'm a fellow harbinger. I thought Apple was cool in the 90s and that Microsoft was on to something in the 00s-early 10s (including Win8/Phone), so I'm at least a solid 5+ years off (or, as a positive spin, simply much too early). [1] https://boingboing.net/2019/12/03/harbringer-of-doom.html https://boingboing.net/2019/12/03/harbringer-of-doom.html)
- bigiain 4y ago
  Thanks! But: > Harbinger households tend to be white, suburban and headed by older, less-educated single parents. Ouch... > I thought Apple was cool in the 90s and that Microsoft was on to something in the 00s It's not on my shelf of bad decisions anymore, but in '95 I though I was making the best possible purchase when I bought a Mac 6100 DOS Compatible... A Mac with a daughterboard that had a 486DX2 which ran MS-DOS and Windows 3.1 and later Win95. (I paid $1200AUD for 3 8MB SIMMs for that, so the DOS board didn't;t have to share RAM with the Mac...)
  - lupire 4y ago
    > > Harbinger households tend to be white, suburban and headed by older, less-educated single parents. Bad at picking products and life partners.
- neither_color 4y ago
  Sounds like high school me buying a zen creative and a zune because they were "better than iPods" and hating iPhones when they came out because physical keyboards would always be superior.
  - iratewizard 4y ago
    I still agree with your high school inner child. I never made a single apple purchase in my life and I'm glad I never fell for the marketing.
    - xtracto 4y ago
      Marketing and peer pressure! See how punished you've been here for expressing a dissenting opinion!
  - nayaketo 4y ago
    Frankly I hate on-screen keyboards. Wish phones were a little smaller but fatter with physical keyboards.
irrational 4y ago
It seems like Apple waits to see what other people do and then come out with a product that works for normal people. When I see Apple come out with iVR, then I will start to believe that VR might actually go mainstream.
- jknoepfler 4y ago
  VR works for me today, for what I use it for. What on earth does it mean to "work for normal people"?
  - zigman1 4y ago
    I think what he is trying to say is, that different companies experiment with a concept (for example, what business phone or touch screen phone were 20 years ago) Apple is observing that and when the moment is right will launch it's own product (iPhone).
  - oblio 4y ago
    When it works for hundreds of people, if not billions of people. That's what "normal people" means.
- towaway15463 4y ago
  They might have a hard time with this one. Maybe the 3k price tag means they will release something with close to the processing power of a PC but I doubt it. Most of that cost is probably in the display they’re using plus the brand. That’s going to have a hard time competing with existing headsets that can tether to a gaming PC. The price alone will put them in a niche market where they’ll be competing with Varjo and Pimax which already have products with equivalent or better displays. Apple would have the advantage of being standalone but that is also a big disadvantage when it comes to gaming or wanting to upgrade hardware.
  - Schroedingersat 4y ago
    Nah, they'll just cripple the graphics, gaslight everyone into claiming it's better, strongarm tmsc into giving them exclusive access to the next node, and then claim that their gpu design is literal magic. Plus it will probably break if you get a hair stuck in it or accelerate at over 0.1g, and everyone will blame the user for wearing it wrong when it happens.
napolux 4y ago
so what’s on your wishlist right now?
otabdeveloper4 4y ago
VR is the "supersonic jet airliner" of computing. It will never be a thing. Give it a rest, sometimes technology is complete and doesn't need to be "disrupted" anymore.
- xtracto 4y ago
  It's like 3D video, it has come back 3 times in my life time, "this time for real " and it always ends up being a fad. I still think that while VR wont get mainstream, AR will deffinitely do.
- towaway15463 4y ago
  Sorry, you’re wrong on this. If you’ve actually spent significant time on the hardware and software that is getting it right then you would know. The problem is that there is a lot of experimental hardware and software getting it wrong but that’s to be expected in the early stages of any new technology. Go find someone that has a good VR setup which is either a valve index or a quest 2 connected to a high end gaming PC and play a few rounds of Pavlov on the weekend when everyone is online. Check out habie147 on YouTube for some decent reviews of good VR games.
  - otabdeveloper4 4y ago
    Flying the Concorde was also really sweet, I heard people tell. That's not the point. I'm sure the technology for VR is kickass and the games are great, but nobody wanted or asked for "disruption" in the videogame space. (Except people who get a rush of "disrupting" things for "disruption"'s sake.)
    - ramesh31 4y ago
      >I'm sure the technology for VR is kickass and the games are great, but nobody wanted or asked for "disruption" in the videogame space. Nobody ever asked for disruption... that's why it's called disruption. But it turns out that VR never really disrupted games anyways. It just created a new category. Most people don't care about VR and have just continued playing normal games that are already expensive enough. VR has just added to the pie, not taken a slice.
lasereyes136 4y ago
> I kinda feel like VR is still in the "Should I get an Amiga? Or an Atari? Or a TRS80? Or a ZX81? Or an Apple II?" stage. Exactly, we are still in early days for VR. Many of the annoying things will get better.
oblio 4y ago
As a reminder for people reading this, the TRS80 & co came out around 1977. PCs reached ubiquity around 1995-1997, I would say (mass introduction in offices and schools around the world - not only in developed countries; mass purchases for at home, both for work/homework and for fun). So that would mean around 20 years. And back then we had Moore's Law on our side. So truly mainstream VR might be 20+ years from now.

lotophage 4y ago

You needed an Amiga to play Dactyl Nightmare back in the day,IIRC.

thefourthchime 4y ago
That and “Altered State”
- bigiain 4y ago
  And lets face it, none of the other platforms ever had a Guru Meditation Error
  - oblio 4y ago
    It caught on later: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guru_Meditation#Legacy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guru_Meditation#Legacy

ckz 4y ago

Tangent: You might appreciate the premise of "harbinger customers"[1]. The theory is that there actually are consumers who are a bit out of sync with the collective and do indeed consistently value/buy products that lose out. I suspect I'm a fellow harbinger. I thought Apple was cool in the 90s and that Microsoft was on to something in the 00s-early 10s (including Win8/Phone), so I'm at least a solid 5+ years off (or, as a positive spin, simply much too early). [1] https://boingboing.net/2019/12/03/harbringer-of-doom.html https://boingboing.net/2019/12/03/harbringer-of-doom.html)

bigiain 4y ago
Thanks! But: > Harbinger households tend to be white, suburban and headed by older, less-educated single parents. Ouch... > I thought Apple was cool in the 90s and that Microsoft was on to something in the 00s It's not on my shelf of bad decisions anymore, but in '95 I though I was making the best possible purchase when I bought a Mac 6100 DOS Compatible... A Mac with a daughterboard that had a 486DX2 which ran MS-DOS and Windows 3.1 and later Win95. (I paid $1200AUD for 3 8MB SIMMs for that, so the DOS board didn't;t have to share RAM with the Mac...)
- lupire 4y ago
  > > Harbinger households tend to be white, suburban and headed by older, less-educated single parents. Bad at picking products and life partners.
neither_color 4y ago
Sounds like high school me buying a zen creative and a zune because they were "better than iPods" and hating iPhones when they came out because physical keyboards would always be superior.
- iratewizard 4y ago
  I still agree with your high school inner child. I never made a single apple purchase in my life and I'm glad I never fell for the marketing.
  - xtracto 4y ago
    Marketing and peer pressure! See how punished you've been here for expressing a dissenting opinion!
- nayaketo 4y ago
  Frankly I hate on-screen keyboards. Wish phones were a little smaller but fatter with physical keyboards.

irrational 4y ago

It seems like Apple waits to see what other people do and then come out with a product that works for normal people. When I see Apple come out with iVR, then I will start to believe that VR might actually go mainstream.

jknoepfler 4y ago
VR works for me today, for what I use it for. What on earth does it mean to "work for normal people"?
- zigman1 4y ago
  I think what he is trying to say is, that different companies experiment with a concept (for example, what business phone or touch screen phone were 20 years ago) Apple is observing that and when the moment is right will launch it's own product (iPhone).
- oblio 4y ago
  When it works for hundreds of people, if not billions of people. That's what "normal people" means.
towaway15463 4y ago
They might have a hard time with this one. Maybe the 3k price tag means they will release something with close to the processing power of a PC but I doubt it. Most of that cost is probably in the display they’re using plus the brand. That’s going to have a hard time competing with existing headsets that can tether to a gaming PC. The price alone will put them in a niche market where they’ll be competing with Varjo and Pimax which already have products with equivalent or better displays. Apple would have the advantage of being standalone but that is also a big disadvantage when it comes to gaming or wanting to upgrade hardware.
- Schroedingersat 4y ago
  Nah, they'll just cripple the graphics, gaslight everyone into claiming it's better, strongarm tmsc into giving them exclusive access to the next node, and then claim that their gpu design is literal magic. Plus it will probably break if you get a hair stuck in it or accelerate at over 0.1g, and everyone will blame the user for wearing it wrong when it happens.

napolux 4y ago

so what’s on your wishlist right now?

otabdeveloper4 4y ago

VR is the "supersonic jet airliner" of computing. It will never be a thing. Give it a rest, sometimes technology is complete and doesn't need to be "disrupted" anymore.

xtracto 4y ago
It's like 3D video, it has come back 3 times in my life time, "this time for real " and it always ends up being a fad. I still think that while VR wont get mainstream, AR will deffinitely do.
towaway15463 4y ago
Sorry, you’re wrong on this. If you’ve actually spent significant time on the hardware and software that is getting it right then you would know. The problem is that there is a lot of experimental hardware and software getting it wrong but that’s to be expected in the early stages of any new technology. Go find someone that has a good VR setup which is either a valve index or a quest 2 connected to a high end gaming PC and play a few rounds of Pavlov on the weekend when everyone is online. Check out habie147 on YouTube for some decent reviews of good VR games.
- otabdeveloper4 4y ago
  Flying the Concorde was also really sweet, I heard people tell. That's not the point. I'm sure the technology for VR is kickass and the games are great, but nobody wanted or asked for "disruption" in the videogame space. (Except people who get a rush of "disrupting" things for "disruption"'s sake.)
  - ramesh31 4y ago
    >I'm sure the technology for VR is kickass and the games are great, but nobody wanted or asked for "disruption" in the videogame space. Nobody ever asked for disruption... that's why it's called disruption. But it turns out that VR never really disrupted games anyways. It just created a new category. Most people don't care about VR and have just continued playing normal games that are already expensive enough. VR has just added to the pie, not taken a slice.

lasereyes136 4y ago

> I kinda feel like VR is still in the "Should I get an Amiga? Or an Atari? Or a TRS80? Or a ZX81? Or an Apple II?" stage. Exactly, we are still in early days for VR. Many of the annoying things will get better.

oblio 4y ago

As a reminder for people reading this, the TRS80 & co came out around 1977. PCs reached ubiquity around 1995-1997, I would say (mass introduction in offices and schools around the world - not only in developed countries; mass purchases for at home, both for work/homework and for fun). So that would mean around 20 years. And back then we had Moore's Law on our side. So truly mainstream VR might be 20+ years from now.