4 ms·

IIRC they're being extremely inefficient with the water because they don't pay for it. Fix that and the problem solves itself.

by usrn 4y ago

refurb 4y ago
Exactly. Once again the free market to the rescue. Price the water based on supply and demand and watch how much more efficient farmers get.
- formerkrogemp 4y ago
  > Exactly. Once again the free market to the rescue. Price the water based on supply and demand and watch how much more efficient farmers get. Ah, yes, have the government change the price and the free market will take care of everything. We need regulation and enforcement, not just a movement in decimal point and fine print for a few parties.
  - usrn 4y ago
    Right now the price is zero because the government is giving it away for free.
    - intrasight 4y ago
      The price is zero because the rights holders own the water rights.
      - SR2Z 4y ago
        Water rights are a good example of how, in practice, property rights are entirely artificial. The system of water rights needs reform.
      - refurb 4y ago
        Who gave the water rights? Or better stated - who owned them originally?
        intrasight 4y ago
        Not given. Taken.
calvinmorrison 4y ago
now I admit I am not an expert. Does anyone know what percentage of water goes right back into the water table?
- usrn 4y ago
  Probably near zero. My understanding is the useful kind of aquifer are the result of the shallow ones being closed off via geologic activity.
- themitigating 4y ago
  It's not helping the source so it's not really important
ClumsyPilot 4y ago
You clearly don't understand farming - it only works when water is free. If you make them pay 0.1% of what residential customers pay, farms will go bancrupt. Because the volumes of water required are so enormous. You could improbe efficiency 2x or 3x, but ir won't matter financially Thatswhy water desalination doesnt work for farming
- SR2Z 4y ago
  Almonds are a classic example of an extremely water-hungry crop, with 1lb of almonds taking 1600 gallons of water to grow. My water bill, in SF, is $0.0123/gal. Now, 1600gal × 0.0123$/gal × 0.001 is about 2 cents. If farms were forced to pay my water rates, a pound of almonds would be $19.68 more expensive - but they would be paying at worst 10% of what I pay, because they wouldn't need potable water or urban plumbing. I am going to ask that you provide sources for your claim, because it seems ridiculous.
  - ClumsyPilot 4y ago
    Your math is right, but conclusion is wrong - wholesale almonds go for $1 - $1.5 per pound, and farmer gets a fraction of that. Yourl are talking about the privlce going up 10x. Even if its 10%, you are more than doubling the price at farm gate.
    - SR2Z 4y ago
      The price seems to be somewhere between $2.5 to $3/lb now: https://www.selinawamucii.com/insights/prices/united-states-of-america/almonds/ https://www.selinawamucii.com/insights/prices/united-states-... In any case, doubling the price of almonds is exactly the kind of change I'd expect to see if water was charged fairly. It's one of the worst offenders - if farmers have built their business models around free water during a historic set of droughts, their business models are fundamentally unsustainable and it's the government's duty to fix the pricing sooner rather than later.

IIRC they're being extremely inefficient with the water because they don't pay for it. Fix that and the problem solves itself.

by usrn 4y ago

IIRC they're being extremely inefficient with the water because they don't pay for it. Fix that and the problem solves itself.

refurb 4y ago

Exactly. Once again the free market to the rescue. Price the water based on supply and demand and watch how much more efficient farmers get.

formerkrogemp 4y ago
> Exactly. Once again the free market to the rescue. Price the water based on supply and demand and watch how much more efficient farmers get. Ah, yes, have the government change the price and the free market will take care of everything. We need regulation and enforcement, not just a movement in decimal point and fine print for a few parties.
- usrn 4y ago
  Right now the price is zero because the government is giving it away for free.
  - intrasight 4y ago
    The price is zero because the rights holders own the water rights.
    - SR2Z 4y ago
      Water rights are a good example of how, in practice, property rights are entirely artificial. The system of water rights needs reform.
    - refurb 4y ago
      Who gave the water rights? Or better stated - who owned them originally?
      - intrasight 4y ago
        Not given. Taken.

calvinmorrison 4y ago

now I admit I am not an expert. Does anyone know what percentage of water goes right back into the water table?

usrn 4y ago
Probably near zero. My understanding is the useful kind of aquifer are the result of the shallow ones being closed off via geologic activity.
themitigating 4y ago
It's not helping the source so it's not really important

ClumsyPilot 4y ago

You clearly don't understand farming - it only works when water is free. If you make them pay 0.1% of what residential customers pay, farms will go bancrupt. Because the volumes of water required are so enormous. You could improbe efficiency 2x or 3x, but ir won't matter financially Thatswhy water desalination doesnt work for farming

SR2Z 4y ago
Almonds are a classic example of an extremely water-hungry crop, with 1lb of almonds taking 1600 gallons of water to grow. My water bill, in SF, is $0.0123/gal. Now, 1600gal × 0.0123$/gal × 0.001 is about 2 cents. If farms were forced to pay my water rates, a pound of almonds would be $19.68 more expensive - but they would be paying at worst 10% of what I pay, because they wouldn't need potable water or urban plumbing. I am going to ask that you provide sources for your claim, because it seems ridiculous.
- ClumsyPilot 4y ago
  Your math is right, but conclusion is wrong - wholesale almonds go for $1 - $1.5 per pound, and farmer gets a fraction of that. Yourl are talking about the privlce going up 10x. Even if its 10%, you are more than doubling the price at farm gate.
  - SR2Z 4y ago
    The price seems to be somewhere between $2.5 to $3/lb now: https://www.selinawamucii.com/insights/prices/united-states-of-america/almonds/ https://www.selinawamucii.com/insights/prices/united-states-... In any case, doubling the price of almonds is exactly the kind of change I'd expect to see if water was charged fairly. It's one of the worst offenders - if farmers have built their business models around free water during a historic set of droughts, their business models are fundamentally unsustainable and it's the government's duty to fix the pricing sooner rather than later.