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I think racism is about as far from a relevant issue as you can get. Honestly, the people who get bent out of shape about it are just as backwards as the few pe

by k33n 15y ago

I think racism is about as far from a relevant issue as you can get. Honestly, the people who get bent out of shape about it are just as backwards as the few people who are still actually racist. Edit: Since davidw is claiming that I think victims of racism are backwards, I'd like to clarify. I think that all victims of crimes and discrimination should be treated with respect and dignity by polite society (which far outnumber racists). It's my opinion that getting upset about a rude military contractor (like the one in this article) is backwards and is giving his point of view way more attention than it deserves. He should be disregarded entirely because his worldview is irrelevant. This issue clearly touched some nerves.

davidw 15y ago
> I think racism is about as far from a relevant issue as you can get. Honestly, the people who get bent out of shape about it are just as backwards as the few people who are still actually racist. Downvoted for trolling. Equating the victims of, and/or people upset about racism, which is indeed an ever present factor in the US and elsewhere, to those who actively perpetrate such backwards ideas, can be nothing less than either the fruit of a sick mind, or someone playing a troll in the internet.
- k33n 15y ago
  Where I chose to clearly express my opinion, you chose to be extremely rude and dismissive. Who's really trolling?
  - davidw 15y ago
    My opinion is that a white guy (you: https://twitter.com/#!/mikekeen https://twitter.com/#!/mikekeen ) saying that people getting upset about racism are 'backwards' is either mind-boggling insensitive or out and out trolling. Nothing rude about it - that's how I see it. I can accept people saying "luckily, in this day and age, I think it's not so much of a problem" as something up for debate, but to state that those angered by discrimination are "backwards" and "just like the racists" is one of the most vile comments I have ever read here.
    - k33n 15y ago
      davidw, If you think your last comment was in the spirit of respectful debate then you should go back and re-read it a few times. If you don't want to respect my opinion, that is not my problem. Racism is irrelevant. Racists are irrelevant. Society doesn't take them seriously. Racists would have zero power over anyone if nobody took their actions or words seriously. Someone doesn't want to give you a job because they are racist? Their loss. Move on. Would you really want to work for someone like that anyway?
      - davidw 15y ago
        I do not believe your comment was worthy of respect, frankly. If you'd started with your comment above saying that "racism is irrelevant", perhaps I'd have called it a bit naive, but taken no offense. To make the connection between people incensed by discrimination to those who perpetrate it is very, very offensive. Racism is very much relevant as long as people have power over other people (which is part and parcel of all complex societies), be it political or economic. You can't disregard someone not selling you a house or giving you a job or letting you marry who you wish, or burning a cross on your lawn. Are things better these days? Certainly! Is racism a non-issue? I don't think so. Are people like Brad Feld, who get angry about discrimination "backwards"? Hell no!
        chernevik 15y ago
        The "racist" tag has become a contemporary excommunication. That might be good were it always applied accurately. But perhaps the diligence of a Soledad O'Brien, interested more in arresting video than strict fairness to subject, makes the tag something very dangerous. There was a day when people thought witches necessarily worse than the people who spotted witches. Go look at how that turned out. But of course you and yours wouldn't be so stupid and unfair. HELLO DOWN-VOTERS. Why bother framing a response when you can just misuse a forum moderation tool? It's intelligence of a kind . . .
        davidw 15y ago
drivingmenuts 15y ago
Racism, in any organization, needs to be called out and dealt with. In the military, even moreso, as the military is supposed to be a fair sampling of the racial makeup of our country. It is supposed to be otherwise neutral with regard to race, creed, color, or gender. If we fail to hold them to as near that standard as possible, then we are giving acceptance to the idea that racism is OK in larger society.
DanBC 15y ago
> I think racism is about as far from a relevant issue as you can get. Honestly, the people who get bent out of shape about it are just as backwards as the few people who are still actually racist. Haven't you just killed your company with this comment? Good Luck with any job interviews your company gives in the future. You appear to have left them open to claims of racist discrimination.
- k33n 15y ago
  This is the most ridiculous thing I've ever read in my life. Nope, haven't killed my company with a completely innocent comment made on HN. Sorry to disappoint you.
- Spyro7 15y ago
  At the risk of losing karma, I have to say that I think this entire thread has really gone way too far. Guys, this is HACKER NEWS. I thought we were supposed to hold ourselves to a higher standard of conversation over here? Could I just post one thing? http://www.paulgraham.com/randomness.html http://www.paulgraham.com/randomness.html If you disagree with what someone writes, then you should reply simply and without embellishment. To conclude that someone has a "sick mind" or has "killed their company" is a bit much of a conclusion to draw from a simple online debate at a tech/startup discussion site. If Hacker News offered the ability to lock discussions, then I am quite sure that this one would have been locked. Can't we all just calm down and get back to coding?
  - davidw 15y ago
    I generally believe very much in giving people the benefit of the doubt, and in not overreacting, and so on. The world benefits greatly from not taking offense at the drop of a hat. However, there are times when one's blood boils for a reason. I reread this a few hours after my initial comments and... yep, I'm still angered when I read that those who call out someone for being racist are "backwards" and the equivalent of racists. If someone wants to argue that racism isn't that big a deal these days... fine, whatever, that's debatable, and people deserve to be able to air their opinion without being shouted at. However, to stand up and say that those who denounce racism should shut up is despicable.

by k33n 15y ago

davidw 15y ago

> I think racism is about as far from a relevant issue as you can get. Honestly, the people who get bent out of shape about it are just as backwards as the few people who are still actually racist. Downvoted for trolling. Equating the victims of, and/or people upset about racism, which is indeed an ever present factor in the US and elsewhere, to those who actively perpetrate such backwards ideas, can be nothing less than either the fruit of a sick mind, or someone playing a troll in the internet.

k33n 15y ago
Where I chose to clearly express my opinion, you chose to be extremely rude and dismissive. Who's really trolling?
- davidw 15y ago
  My opinion is that a white guy (you: https://twitter.com/#!/mikekeen https://twitter.com/#!/mikekeen ) saying that people getting upset about racism are 'backwards' is either mind-boggling insensitive or out and out trolling. Nothing rude about it - that's how I see it. I can accept people saying "luckily, in this day and age, I think it's not so much of a problem" as something up for debate, but to state that those angered by discrimination are "backwards" and "just like the racists" is one of the most vile comments I have ever read here.
  - k33n 15y ago
    davidw, If you think your last comment was in the spirit of respectful debate then you should go back and re-read it a few times. If you don't want to respect my opinion, that is not my problem. Racism is irrelevant. Racists are irrelevant. Society doesn't take them seriously. Racists would have zero power over anyone if nobody took their actions or words seriously. Someone doesn't want to give you a job because they are racist? Their loss. Move on. Would you really want to work for someone like that anyway?
    - davidw 15y ago
      I do not believe your comment was worthy of respect, frankly. If you'd started with your comment above saying that "racism is irrelevant", perhaps I'd have called it a bit naive, but taken no offense. To make the connection between people incensed by discrimination to those who perpetrate it is very, very offensive. Racism is very much relevant as long as people have power over other people (which is part and parcel of all complex societies), be it political or economic. You can't disregard someone not selling you a house or giving you a job or letting you marry who you wish, or burning a cross on your lawn. Are things better these days? Certainly! Is racism a non-issue? I don't think so. Are people like Brad Feld, who get angry about discrimination "backwards"? Hell no!
      - chernevik 15y ago
        The "racist" tag has become a contemporary excommunication. That might be good were it always applied accurately. But perhaps the diligence of a Soledad O'Brien, interested more in arresting video than strict fairness to subject, makes the tag something very dangerous. There was a day when people thought witches necessarily worse than the people who spotted witches. Go look at how that turned out. But of course you and yours wouldn't be so stupid and unfair. HELLO DOWN-VOTERS. Why bother framing a response when you can just misuse a forum moderation tool? It's intelligence of a kind . . .
        davidw 15y ago

drivingmenuts 15y ago

Racism, in any organization, needs to be called out and dealt with. In the military, even moreso, as the military is supposed to be a fair sampling of the racial makeup of our country. It is supposed to be otherwise neutral with regard to race, creed, color, or gender. If we fail to hold them to as near that standard as possible, then we are giving acceptance to the idea that racism is OK in larger society.

DanBC 15y ago

> I think racism is about as far from a relevant issue as you can get. Honestly, the people who get bent out of shape about it are just as backwards as the few people who are still actually racist. Haven't you just killed your company with this comment? Good Luck with any job interviews your company gives in the future. You appear to have left them open to claims of racist discrimination.

k33n 15y ago
This is the most ridiculous thing I've ever read in my life. Nope, haven't killed my company with a completely innocent comment made on HN. Sorry to disappoint you.
Spyro7 15y ago
At the risk of losing karma, I have to say that I think this entire thread has really gone way too far. Guys, this is HACKER NEWS. I thought we were supposed to hold ourselves to a higher standard of conversation over here? Could I just post one thing? http://www.paulgraham.com/randomness.html http://www.paulgraham.com/randomness.html If you disagree with what someone writes, then you should reply simply and without embellishment. To conclude that someone has a "sick mind" or has "killed their company" is a bit much of a conclusion to draw from a simple online debate at a tech/startup discussion site. If Hacker News offered the ability to lock discussions, then I am quite sure that this one would have been locked. Can't we all just calm down and get back to coding?
- davidw 15y ago
  I generally believe very much in giving people the benefit of the doubt, and in not overreacting, and so on. The world benefits greatly from not taking offense at the drop of a hat. However, there are times when one's blood boils for a reason. I reread this a few hours after my initial comments and... yep, I'm still angered when I read that those who call out someone for being racist are "backwards" and the equivalent of racists. If someone wants to argue that racism isn't that big a deal these days... fine, whatever, that's debatable, and people deserve to be able to air their opinion without being shouted at. However, to stand up and say that those who denounce racism should shut up is despicable.