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You shouldn't be disallowed from joking about anything. Clamping authority down onto jokes kills them before they've had a chance to fail. The safety net of a

You shouldn't be disallowed from joking about anything. Clamping authority down onto jokes kills them before they've had a chance to fail. The safety net of a failed joke is that it doesn't mean very much. Putting authoritative rules in place to prevent a failed joke makes it so much worse when a joke doesn't land, or accidently offends, because now it "shouldn't have been allowed in the first place" and the public senses a disruption in their own control over the world. Just let jokes go people, they don't matter and that's the gorgeous, beautiful truth we can share together. The network effects of treating jokes like they have authority and governmental consequence is deeply unpleasant for everyone, except a few political groups which benefit.

giraffe_lady 4y ago
Who is making these rules about what jokes can be made, and by what mechanism are they enforced? I've never seen anything about that. There are social consequences to making certain kind of jokes. Like there always have been? But which kinds of jokes and what sort and degree of consequences are changing. You can have an issue with that and resist it, but the mechanics of this institution are not new. These unspoken rules about who can say what and what will happen if you transgress them are the invisible infrastructure of social connection and ultimately society. The rules are changing fast and by different players than is traditional, but the fact that there are rules and consequences for violating them is as old as us.
- mc32 4y ago
  In the US, a long list of comedians have fought hard through the decades, first radio, then TV to be able to tell risky jokes, naughty jokes, anti-establishment jokes, uncouth jokes, etc. They all fought against the prudes and establishment culture back then. Should they not have fought and won those victories? Should they have remained in vaudevillian repertoires only?
  - kelseyfrog 4y ago
    Etc is doing a lot of heavy lifting here. Racist, homophobic, sexist, and transphobic jokes are really what we're here to talk about. Was it an intentional omission or an accident? Just curious.
    - mc32 4y ago
      Lenny Bruce, Redd Foxx, Richard Prior, etc. Comedians of old engaged in all of the above. I do not know a comedian that existed prior to 10 years ago that did not have some sort of sexist joke (Obviously Andy Clay takes the cake, I think), short of maybe some pretentious super wholesome "comedian" doing "wholesome jokes"
      - kelseyfrog 4y ago
        Let me summarize and repeat the argument to see if I'm getting it right. Because jokes were used to test boundaries in the past, there is no boundary that should not be tested today?
        mc32 4y ago
        I'm not a comedian. I cannot tell a joke. I would bet most comedians 10, 5 years ago would have said definitely yes. They probably would still say so today -but given the coals they have to walk on, you may find some trepidation amongst some.
        kelseyfrog 4y ago
        This is confusing. Is it that you agree with the comedian's logic or is it different from your own?
        foxes 4y ago
        Techbros seething lmao, easier to just downvote the person who clearly doesn’t understand that freer muh speeeeech freeer the people. How dare there be consequences for any action, I just want to say anything and get away with it, like you know etc.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- earleybird 4y ago
  Are you saying that the old "prudes" (for example) are the new folks who would "cancel"?
hitovst 4y ago
The problem comes when liars have to perpetually maintain so many lies that they must persecute anyone courageous enough to speak the truth. It doesn't even matter if they're right, just that they can and do think for themselves, and have the spine to speak out despite the show of conformity. They attempt to dominate language to control everything else. That, and fear.. Laughter helps cure people of fear. They need people afraid, divided, and willing to give up essential liberty for the illusion of security. Disobedience in intolerable. Slavers are antithetical to truth, and vice versa. SPEAK THE TRUTH.

giraffe_lady 4y ago

Who is making these rules about what jokes can be made, and by what mechanism are they enforced? I've never seen anything about that. There are social consequences to making certain kind of jokes. Like there always have been? But which kinds of jokes and what sort and degree of consequences are changing. You can have an issue with that and resist it, but the mechanics of this institution are not new. These unspoken rules about who can say what and what will happen if you transgress them are the invisible infrastructure of social connection and ultimately society. The rules are changing fast and by different players than is traditional, but the fact that there are rules and consequences for violating them is as old as us.

mc32 4y ago
In the US, a long list of comedians have fought hard through the decades, first radio, then TV to be able to tell risky jokes, naughty jokes, anti-establishment jokes, uncouth jokes, etc. They all fought against the prudes and establishment culture back then. Should they not have fought and won those victories? Should they have remained in vaudevillian repertoires only?
- kelseyfrog 4y ago
  Etc is doing a lot of heavy lifting here. Racist, homophobic, sexist, and transphobic jokes are really what we're here to talk about. Was it an intentional omission or an accident? Just curious.
  - mc32 4y ago
    Lenny Bruce, Redd Foxx, Richard Prior, etc. Comedians of old engaged in all of the above. I do not know a comedian that existed prior to 10 years ago that did not have some sort of sexist joke (Obviously Andy Clay takes the cake, I think), short of maybe some pretentious super wholesome "comedian" doing "wholesome jokes"
    - kelseyfrog 4y ago
      Let me summarize and repeat the argument to see if I'm getting it right. Because jokes were used to test boundaries in the past, there is no boundary that should not be tested today?
      - mc32 4y ago
        I'm not a comedian. I cannot tell a joke. I would bet most comedians 10, 5 years ago would have said definitely yes. They probably would still say so today -but given the coals they have to walk on, you may find some trepidation amongst some.
        kelseyfrog 4y ago
        This is confusing. Is it that you agree with the comedian's logic or is it different from your own?
        foxes 4y ago
        Techbros seething lmao, easier to just downvote the person who clearly doesn’t understand that freer muh speeeeech freeer the people. How dare there be consequences for any action, I just want to say anything and get away with it, like you know etc.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
earleybird 4y ago
Are you saying that the old "prudes" (for example) are the new folks who would "cancel"?

hitovst 4y ago

The problem comes when liars have to perpetually maintain so many lies that they must persecute anyone courageous enough to speak the truth. It doesn't even matter if they're right, just that they can and do think for themselves, and have the spine to speak out despite the show of conformity. They attempt to dominate language to control everything else. That, and fear.. Laughter helps cure people of fear. They need people afraid, divided, and willing to give up essential liberty for the illusion of security. Disobedience in intolerable. Slavers are antithetical to truth, and vice versa. SPEAK THE TRUTH.