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I used to think so, it just sounds like it would be "the future", right? But realistically, what exactly is the appeal of it? The Metaverse? I mean, if no one

I used to think so, it just sounds like it would be "the future", right? But realistically, what exactly is the appeal of it? The Metaverse? I mean, if no one can figure out how to make a fun MMORPG these days, what makes you think the "Metaverse" will actually be something people will want to spend time in? And why would Facebook be the one who actually figure out how to build some super appealing virtual world, they have 0% experience in doing this. It's gonna be boring, in immersive VR, still boring. And who really wants to wear these headsets? They always gonna be somewhat bulky. But even if you could make it super immersive, and super fun, and totally appealing, you always gonna be one thing that's holding you back: Your real body, yes unfortunately we are all tied to these meat bags, so our dream of moving into our self created Matrix is always gonna be somewhat limited. I mean you gotta be realistic here, no matter what we do, life will always be best experienced without a VR headset on. It might have some cool fun uses, but that's about it.

berberous 4y ago
I think you are just out of touch. Don’t kids already spend tons of time in Roblox, Minecraft and Fortnite? Fortnite has concerts by artists like Travis Scott that are massively attended, fashion areas where you can shop virtual clothing, etc. You really think this trend will dissipate as the tech gets better?
- LegitShady 4y ago
  when I grew up I also spent time in video games, none of which are around today, because they're just activities not ways of life. Fortnite 'concerts' are choreographed just webcasts. fashion areas are just microtransactions. there's nothing new there.
- shahbaby 4y ago
  I'm sure VR will grow and have its place, it just won't be a game changing revolution like smartphones were.
  - intrasight 4y ago
    You're right. It'll be 100x more game changing than smartphones.
    - jazzyjackson 4y ago
      there is clearly a cultural schism developing, i've heard the phrase "terminally online" to describe people whose social circle exists entirely on twitter so we will have a majority of people being totally dismissive of interacting with avatars through goggles (I hate the experience personally, feels like putting on a blindfold), and a growing minority that wouldn't have it any other way, divorced from anything going on IRL
      - walleeee 4y ago
        I was privy to something while I still had a twitter account: a certain group of people, mostly anon or semi-anon accounts, having been brought into contact by some combination of algorithm, self-selection and serendipity, many of whom seemed to identify more with their emerging twitter ingroup than local circles, more than a few of whom self-described as very (if not terminally) online, self-organized a gathering IRL, which, while some seem to have had a good experience, quickly strained apparent bonds and revealed a number of fault lines if this sort of thing is not unique to this particular group I could see it reinforcing the schism you describe, with online "communities" hesitant to talk to each other with goggles off lest it be discovered that a virtually established milieu may depend more on the avatars than the people behind them
        throwaway4aday 4y ago
        I think VR and Twitter are far too different for this to fully apply. VR interaction involves real time voice communication along with a good deal of body language. Twitter has a forced limit on the number of characters you can use and is text and static image only. A fairer comparison might be video calls but I don't know of any online communities that use these exclusively so the closest would be Discord servers where a lot of people use voice chat. There are quite a few people that have met up irl after building a relationship in apps like VR Chat, I think they've probably had the same success rate that people who met through chatrooms or dating sites have.
- dragontamer 4y ago
  No. I just know that nobody wants to actually do the Carlson dance in VR when they can instead push one button in Fortnight to do that emoji. VR has some interesting games and interesting effects. Emulating reality is not it at all. We as a tech society are still trying to figure out what VR is good for. -------- My best experiences in VR is and remains Beat Saber. A few other games (Keep Talking and nobody Explodes, Super hot, the spaceship shooter game from the lab) are good and fun. There is nothing like reality in these games. In fact, the closer things get to reality (ex: throwing objects in Superhot) the worse the experience gets. In contrast, when you become a fantasy avatar who moves a spaceship around with your hand (space shooter from the Lab) and I can play that for hours. The best experiences are honest about what VR does well and what doesn't work well. Real life experiences are best one in real life, not with expensive $1000+ goggles on a computer.
  - kiazoz 4y ago
    A synthetic reality would be amazing. People would figure out all kinds of killer apps in the first year. Wearing a monitor on your face though is not capable of creating a synthetic reality. I always see people mention VR fitness. I would love a synthetic gym with every piece of gym gear ever made and then build our own new gear from there. The problem is there is no way to lift synthetic weights by just strapping a monitor to your face, obviously.
  - throwaway4aday 4y ago
    For you. I'm with Carmack on this one, reality may be better than VR for you but there are a lot of people in the world where that may not be the case either all the time or for some of the time. A VR headset is cheaper and more attainable than moving to a new city/state/country. Meeting people in VR is easier than trying to make new friends offline. VR allows people to choose everything about their physical appearance, not just clothing but physical proportions and attributes, gender, etc. Is it escapism? To some degree yes but it does allow for real social interaction on a level not previously possible with a computer. That means a lot to people who aren't able to socialize with others offline for a whole host of reasons.
    - 4y ago
- iLoveOncall 4y ago
  I've attended the concerts in Fortnite because they give free XP, not because I give a fuck about the concerts. You are the one that is out of touch.
DoneWithAllThat 4y ago
So while I’m general I do think some of the fascination with VR ubiquity is overhyped: this last weekend the Furality VR furry con was held in VRChat. It had over 5000 registered attendees and peak simultaneous players was over 4200, with most of the popular events/times still numbering in the 1000s of players. And that’s with VR still very much in the gen 1 (maybe gen 2 if you want to be generous) phase of development. Within five or ten years tech like eye and mouth tracking and partial/full body haptics (which are all already a thing, just niche) will be typical offerings. I don’t know to what extent it’ll displace existing tech. But the popularity of it today (especially in spaces where artists and developers can do whatever they want) is real and growing crazy fast.
- rsynnott 4y ago
  I'd be cautious of reading too much into that, because furries are also, these days, the main users of SecondLife. When everyone else bailed out of Metaverse 1.0 15 years ago, the furries stayed. It's arguably a community with very different requirements to the mainstream.
- paulryanrogers 4y ago
  Consider that VR dates back to at least the early nineties. This may be more like the third generation.
  - throwaway4aday 4y ago
    That's a little like tracing computers back to ENIAC, sure it's the same concept and can do some of the same things but there are worlds of difference between it and a personal computer.
    - paulryanrogers 4y ago
      Even if you limit scope to only consumer grade VR there's still examples from the mid-nineties of strap-on headsets. The jump to wireless has also been a generational leap, despite its tradeoffs. So by my count this is the 3rd generation.
imron 4y ago
> And why would Facebook be the one who actually figure out how to build some super appealing virtual world They don't need to build a super appealing virtual world, they just need to figure out how to get you coming back to something every day, even if you don't like it and/or think it adds negative value to your life.
towaway15463 4y ago
With VR it’s not about the world you play in, it’s all about the people who are there. Most of what I do in VR is just hang out and talk to people but when I do game it’s anything with multiplayer. As long as the game includes grabbable objects and physics people will make their own fun. It’s a much lower bar than traditional games, just make sure your networking is on point and you almost can’t lose.

berberous 4y ago

I think you are just out of touch. Don’t kids already spend tons of time in Roblox, Minecraft and Fortnite? Fortnite has concerts by artists like Travis Scott that are massively attended, fashion areas where you can shop virtual clothing, etc. You really think this trend will dissipate as the tech gets better?

LegitShady 4y ago
when I grew up I also spent time in video games, none of which are around today, because they're just activities not ways of life. Fortnite 'concerts' are choreographed just webcasts. fashion areas are just microtransactions. there's nothing new there.
shahbaby 4y ago
I'm sure VR will grow and have its place, it just won't be a game changing revolution like smartphones were.
- intrasight 4y ago
  You're right. It'll be 100x more game changing than smartphones.
  - jazzyjackson 4y ago
    there is clearly a cultural schism developing, i've heard the phrase "terminally online" to describe people whose social circle exists entirely on twitter so we will have a majority of people being totally dismissive of interacting with avatars through goggles (I hate the experience personally, feels like putting on a blindfold), and a growing minority that wouldn't have it any other way, divorced from anything going on IRL
    - walleeee 4y ago
      I was privy to something while I still had a twitter account: a certain group of people, mostly anon or semi-anon accounts, having been brought into contact by some combination of algorithm, self-selection and serendipity, many of whom seemed to identify more with their emerging twitter ingroup than local circles, more than a few of whom self-described as very (if not terminally) online, self-organized a gathering IRL, which, while some seem to have had a good experience, quickly strained apparent bonds and revealed a number of fault lines if this sort of thing is not unique to this particular group I could see it reinforcing the schism you describe, with online "communities" hesitant to talk to each other with goggles off lest it be discovered that a virtually established milieu may depend more on the avatars than the people behind them
      - throwaway4aday 4y ago
        I think VR and Twitter are far too different for this to fully apply. VR interaction involves real time voice communication along with a good deal of body language. Twitter has a forced limit on the number of characters you can use and is text and static image only. A fairer comparison might be video calls but I don't know of any online communities that use these exclusively so the closest would be Discord servers where a lot of people use voice chat. There are quite a few people that have met up irl after building a relationship in apps like VR Chat, I think they've probably had the same success rate that people who met through chatrooms or dating sites have.
dragontamer 4y ago
No. I just know that nobody wants to actually do the Carlson dance in VR when they can instead push one button in Fortnight to do that emoji. VR has some interesting games and interesting effects. Emulating reality is not it at all. We as a tech society are still trying to figure out what VR is good for. -------- My best experiences in VR is and remains Beat Saber. A few other games (Keep Talking and nobody Explodes, Super hot, the spaceship shooter game from the lab) are good and fun. There is nothing like reality in these games. In fact, the closer things get to reality (ex: throwing objects in Superhot) the worse the experience gets. In contrast, when you become a fantasy avatar who moves a spaceship around with your hand (space shooter from the Lab) and I can play that for hours. The best experiences are honest about what VR does well and what doesn't work well. Real life experiences are best one in real life, not with expensive $1000+ goggles on a computer.
- kiazoz 4y ago
  A synthetic reality would be amazing. People would figure out all kinds of killer apps in the first year. Wearing a monitor on your face though is not capable of creating a synthetic reality. I always see people mention VR fitness. I would love a synthetic gym with every piece of gym gear ever made and then build our own new gear from there. The problem is there is no way to lift synthetic weights by just strapping a monitor to your face, obviously.
- throwaway4aday 4y ago
  For you. I'm with Carmack on this one, reality may be better than VR for you but there are a lot of people in the world where that may not be the case either all the time or for some of the time. A VR headset is cheaper and more attainable than moving to a new city/state/country. Meeting people in VR is easier than trying to make new friends offline. VR allows people to choose everything about their physical appearance, not just clothing but physical proportions and attributes, gender, etc. Is it escapism? To some degree yes but it does allow for real social interaction on a level not previously possible with a computer. That means a lot to people who aren't able to socialize with others offline for a whole host of reasons.
  - 4y ago
iLoveOncall 4y ago
I've attended the concerts in Fortnite because they give free XP, not because I give a fuck about the concerts. You are the one that is out of touch.

DoneWithAllThat 4y ago

So while I’m general I do think some of the fascination with VR ubiquity is overhyped: this last weekend the Furality VR furry con was held in VRChat. It had over 5000 registered attendees and peak simultaneous players was over 4200, with most of the popular events/times still numbering in the 1000s of players. And that’s with VR still very much in the gen 1 (maybe gen 2 if you want to be generous) phase of development. Within five or ten years tech like eye and mouth tracking and partial/full body haptics (which are all already a thing, just niche) will be typical offerings. I don’t know to what extent it’ll displace existing tech. But the popularity of it today (especially in spaces where artists and developers can do whatever they want) is real and growing crazy fast.

rsynnott 4y ago
I'd be cautious of reading too much into that, because furries are also, these days, the main users of SecondLife. When everyone else bailed out of Metaverse 1.0 15 years ago, the furries stayed. It's arguably a community with very different requirements to the mainstream.
paulryanrogers 4y ago
Consider that VR dates back to at least the early nineties. This may be more like the third generation.
- throwaway4aday 4y ago
  That's a little like tracing computers back to ENIAC, sure it's the same concept and can do some of the same things but there are worlds of difference between it and a personal computer.
  - paulryanrogers 4y ago
    Even if you limit scope to only consumer grade VR there's still examples from the mid-nineties of strap-on headsets. The jump to wireless has also been a generational leap, despite its tradeoffs. So by my count this is the 3rd generation.

imron 4y ago

> And why would Facebook be the one who actually figure out how to build some super appealing virtual world They don't need to build a super appealing virtual world, they just need to figure out how to get you coming back to something every day, even if you don't like it and/or think it adds negative value to your life.

towaway15463 4y ago

With VR it’s not about the world you play in, it’s all about the people who are there. Most of what I do in VR is just hang out and talk to people but when I do game it’s anything with multiplayer. As long as the game includes grabbable objects and physics people will make their own fun. It’s a much lower bar than traditional games, just make sure your networking is on point and you almost can’t lose.