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And yet, our current medium of exchange relies on artificial scarcity as well, controlled by central banks. This is where your average crypto proponent will fol

by ppqqrr 4y ago

And yet, our current medium of exchange relies on artificial scarcity as well, controlled by central banks. This is where your average crypto proponent will follow up with their spiel on the benefits of decentralization, but I personally believe decentralization is a distraction, or at best only relevant for those in charge of the supply of the currency. On the demand side, what cryptocurrencies really bring to the table is an alternative, asymmetrical channel for currency and values to move through; and in a capitalist system that naturally skews towards inequality, the more money changes hands, the more likely it is that the next hand to take it will be that of the rich. So as far as the rich are concerned, the incentives to bootstrap the crypto economy and keep it funded well enough to slowly suck up conventional economic activity is already there.

seibelj 4y ago
You and I have fundamentally different world views. I don’t see an increase of commerce = more inequality. I see it as more services and goods being provided and more needs being met. I like when commerce happens. It means people are voluntarily exchanging useful things and mutually benefiting.
- ppqqrr 4y ago
  Despite my cynical tone, I don’t see inequality as a primary outcome of commerce, either; I do see the increased exchange of goods that the crypto economy brings as a general positive. But it’s almost always been the case that the more commerce happens, the more extreme the gap between the rich and the poor becomes; arguably it’s not always a bad thing, as long as everyone’s getting a piece of the pie. I’m just speculating on why there’s big money rolling into crypto, and there will continue to be.
  - selimthegrim 4y ago
    I question your assumption about the velocity of money belonging to rich people. Barring flash trading, if they’re not hoarding it and collecting interest, they’re spending it on real goods or investing? Isn’t that more along the lines of what seibelj said? Aren’t the rich mode likely to sit and let it collect interest?
    - ppqqrr 4y ago
      Sure, they like to have “their money do the work,” but they still have to find (or grow) a system where large capitals can sit and collect interests.
  - seibelj 4y ago
    There is big money coming into crypto because it is rebuilding the financial system with software protocols, assembled into building blocks, and each block is tokenized like a stock. It’s like being able to invest in TCP at the dawn of the internet. You can say this is a bad idea, illegal, and so on, but fundamentally this is what’s happening and the reason why VCs are investing. The surest way to get rich in the world without using a gun or getting into a position of political power and stealing, is to create something people want to use voluntarily. If I create a new widget and convince 10 million people to give me $10, I have $100 million of revenue. Let’s say my expenses are in total 75%. I’ve now made $25 million. This is certainly a princely sum of money, but I made 10 million people’s lives better! Or else they wouldn’t have voluntarily given me money. Certain people would say, “You have $25 million when 99% of so little! This is unfair! You should give (some large percentage) of it back to society for the politicians to decide how to disperse. And this is where I fundamentally disagree. The person who convinces enough people to give them that much money is rare. They have a unique ability to spot market needs, assemble people to work cooperatively, and work towards a goal of delivering widgets that meet the desires of society. I want to let them keep as much of their money as possible because they are highly likely to reinvest it properly, vs. the politicians which have a 99% chance of failure / theft.
    - ppqqrr 4y ago
      As I’ve said, I express no judgement as to whether any of this is morally objectionable, or good/bad for society in general. You’re arguing with yourself at this point.
      - seibelj 4y ago
        There are other people here who will read our comment thread and I am hopeful my arguments may encourage people to think differently whether or not you will.
deleted 4y ago
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by ppqqrr 4y ago

seibelj 4y ago

You and I have fundamentally different world views. I don’t see an increase of commerce = more inequality. I see it as more services and goods being provided and more needs being met. I like when commerce happens. It means people are voluntarily exchanging useful things and mutually benefiting.

ppqqrr 4y ago
Despite my cynical tone, I don’t see inequality as a primary outcome of commerce, either; I do see the increased exchange of goods that the crypto economy brings as a general positive. But it’s almost always been the case that the more commerce happens, the more extreme the gap between the rich and the poor becomes; arguably it’s not always a bad thing, as long as everyone’s getting a piece of the pie. I’m just speculating on why there’s big money rolling into crypto, and there will continue to be.
- selimthegrim 4y ago
  I question your assumption about the velocity of money belonging to rich people. Barring flash trading, if they’re not hoarding it and collecting interest, they’re spending it on real goods or investing? Isn’t that more along the lines of what seibelj said? Aren’t the rich mode likely to sit and let it collect interest?
  - ppqqrr 4y ago
    Sure, they like to have “their money do the work,” but they still have to find (or grow) a system where large capitals can sit and collect interests.
- seibelj 4y ago
  There is big money coming into crypto because it is rebuilding the financial system with software protocols, assembled into building blocks, and each block is tokenized like a stock. It’s like being able to invest in TCP at the dawn of the internet. You can say this is a bad idea, illegal, and so on, but fundamentally this is what’s happening and the reason why VCs are investing. The surest way to get rich in the world without using a gun or getting into a position of political power and stealing, is to create something people want to use voluntarily. If I create a new widget and convince 10 million people to give me $10, I have $100 million of revenue. Let’s say my expenses are in total 75%. I’ve now made $25 million. This is certainly a princely sum of money, but I made 10 million people’s lives better! Or else they wouldn’t have voluntarily given me money. Certain people would say, “You have $25 million when 99% of so little! This is unfair! You should give (some large percentage) of it back to society for the politicians to decide how to disperse. And this is where I fundamentally disagree. The person who convinces enough people to give them that much money is rare. They have a unique ability to spot market needs, assemble people to work cooperatively, and work towards a goal of delivering widgets that meet the desires of society. I want to let them keep as much of their money as possible because they are highly likely to reinvest it properly, vs. the politicians which have a 99% chance of failure / theft.
  - ppqqrr 4y ago
    As I’ve said, I express no judgement as to whether any of this is morally objectionable, or good/bad for society in general. You’re arguing with yourself at this point.
    - seibelj 4y ago
      There are other people here who will read our comment thread and I am hopeful my arguments may encourage people to think differently whether or not you will.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]