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10 years ago I thought we would all be driving in autonomous cars by now, I was seriously concerned about the impact this would have on the trucking industry. F

10 years ago I thought we would all be driving in autonomous cars by now, I was seriously concerned about the impact this would have on the trucking industry. For context I have a background in ML/Stats so I was reasonably familiar with the research going on in this area and had many friends working on it. In that time I have relearned an old adage that people before my generation would know well "the last mile is the longest mile". In R&D this feels far more extreme than in running. VR seems very similar to autonomous driving. Quest 1/2 are light years ahead of what we had a decade or so ago. At the same time it's nowhere near to the point where it's going to be a major part of my day. The Quest was mind blowing when I first used it, but I got bored remarkably fast. Most importantly, none of my problems with quest are the problems that are being solved here. The biggest one, in my opinion, is still space. I want a 10'x10' area to run around in to even start having fun, and even in a house I still don't have an open space that supports that without moving furniture around. The mobile phone took over our lives because it's so small and convenient. Large TVs work because we've been building homes around them for decades, and TV spaces are also communal, family/friend spaces. This brings up another issue, VR is fundamentally isolating. I get annoyed enough when friends don't look up from their phones. The remaining obstacles for VR to conquer seem to be arguably bigger problems than the ones that self driving cars need to tackle to take over the roads.

onlyrealcuzzo 4y ago
> This brings up another issue, VR is fundamentally isolation. Wait. Why? Online games exist. They're social. I'm not really a gamer. But it's interesting why social interaction in online video games is some secondary tier to social interaction playing basketball, for example, or just talking in coffee shop - or on the phone...
- WJW 4y ago
  It's not that you can't have social interactions in a (VR) game, but someone with VR goggles on is extremely unapproachable for other people in the same room.
- AlexandrB 4y ago
  Social interaction in video games is second tier because it's vastly lower bandwidth than real life social interaction. 3 senses - taste, touch, smell - are completely missing. Audio is present, but often sounds distorted, disconnected, or ethereal - i.e. "off". Meanwhile, visually you only gets to experience the virtual space you're interacting in which is rife with limitations. In particular, body language from those around you is either missing entirely or is very rudimentary. Though I'd say interaction in games can easily beat "talking on the phone".
  - pteraspidomorph 4y ago
    You can get very good body language through, but... it will cost you quite a bit in additional hardware (trackers and add-ons). The demand is clearly there and the supply is catching up (various competitors). I think competition will drive down the cost. Audio is likewise a matter of cost. And manufacturers not cheaping out on components, I'm looking at you HTC (and the notoriously horrible Rift S too). I'm looking forward to programmable smells based on a combination of basic smell cartridges. That's totally a thing people are working on. Touch is a hell of a lot harder to solve. More could be done to provide good haptic feedback. Haptic vests and facial interfaces already exist (at additional cost, of course), but the problem is the more crap you have to add to your body the more inconvenient (and sweaty) VR gets. I believe providing better VR touch interfaces is key to the development of the technology. And I really, really don't want to taste anything in VR!
    - towaway15463 4y ago
      If we get good body and face and eye tracking all built into a headset I think social VR will have everything it needs. I’m pretty sure all tracking can be done purely with cameras, maybe even only with cameras on the headset and controllers though I think having a single wireless base station studded with cameras would make it easier. Touch is great but not really necessary in most cases.
  - belval 4y ago
    Your point is very culture-dependent though. Due to sound orientation and voice chat, playing Pavlov VR does feel like a very social activity, probably more so than just going to a bar with the same friends. I don't usually touch, taste or smell my friends either. > In particular, body language from those around you is either missing entirely or is very rudimentary. That one is fair game.
- iamwil 4y ago
  They do, but most people also live with other people. If you're immersed in VR, you're isolated from those you're with in real life. It's harder to keep immersed, if your g/f, wife, or kids hit you up every couple of mins. So unless they also have headsets that are interacting with you, it's likely, that both you and they want to spend time with each other in real life, and when you go into VR, you're isolated from them.
  - towaway15463 4y ago
    Same goes for playing games or browsing on a computer. Most people aren’t capable of keeping up active conversation while immersed in a game or even just reading an article. VR can include other people that are present physically but it really should be treated as a separate activity. You should make time in your day for your loved ones outside of VR.
ar_te 4y ago
My profesor at Uni predicted, that the next computer revolution will be "invisible computing". That firstly basically all everyday items will get chips inside (ie "Smart Things", it was way before Iphone &co) and then computing will bee something in the background. IDK, but it seems plausible to me and looks like we are moving into such future. VR is not compatible with that vision. Most ppl prefer real life to escapism. And event if you want to escape drugs are more fun and more addictive.
- WillPostForFood 4y ago
  Most ppl prefer real life to escapism. I dunno, escapist industries are pretty big, and occupy quite a big of most people's non-work waking life. Film, tv, video games, books, comics, social media, etc..

onlyrealcuzzo 4y ago

> This brings up another issue, VR is fundamentally isolation. Wait. Why? Online games exist. They're social. I'm not really a gamer. But it's interesting why social interaction in online video games is some secondary tier to social interaction playing basketball, for example, or just talking in coffee shop - or on the phone...

WJW 4y ago
It's not that you can't have social interactions in a (VR) game, but someone with VR goggles on is extremely unapproachable for other people in the same room.
AlexandrB 4y ago
Social interaction in video games is second tier because it's vastly lower bandwidth than real life social interaction. 3 senses - taste, touch, smell - are completely missing. Audio is present, but often sounds distorted, disconnected, or ethereal - i.e. "off". Meanwhile, visually you only gets to experience the virtual space you're interacting in which is rife with limitations. In particular, body language from those around you is either missing entirely or is very rudimentary. Though I'd say interaction in games can easily beat "talking on the phone".
- pteraspidomorph 4y ago
  You can get very good body language through, but... it will cost you quite a bit in additional hardware (trackers and add-ons). The demand is clearly there and the supply is catching up (various competitors). I think competition will drive down the cost. Audio is likewise a matter of cost. And manufacturers not cheaping out on components, I'm looking at you HTC (and the notoriously horrible Rift S too). I'm looking forward to programmable smells based on a combination of basic smell cartridges. That's totally a thing people are working on. Touch is a hell of a lot harder to solve. More could be done to provide good haptic feedback. Haptic vests and facial interfaces already exist (at additional cost, of course), but the problem is the more crap you have to add to your body the more inconvenient (and sweaty) VR gets. I believe providing better VR touch interfaces is key to the development of the technology. And I really, really don't want to taste anything in VR!
  - towaway15463 4y ago
    If we get good body and face and eye tracking all built into a headset I think social VR will have everything it needs. I’m pretty sure all tracking can be done purely with cameras, maybe even only with cameras on the headset and controllers though I think having a single wireless base station studded with cameras would make it easier. Touch is great but not really necessary in most cases.
- belval 4y ago
  Your point is very culture-dependent though. Due to sound orientation and voice chat, playing Pavlov VR does feel like a very social activity, probably more so than just going to a bar with the same friends. I don't usually touch, taste or smell my friends either. > In particular, body language from those around you is either missing entirely or is very rudimentary. That one is fair game.
iamwil 4y ago
They do, but most people also live with other people. If you're immersed in VR, you're isolated from those you're with in real life. It's harder to keep immersed, if your g/f, wife, or kids hit you up every couple of mins. So unless they also have headsets that are interacting with you, it's likely, that both you and they want to spend time with each other in real life, and when you go into VR, you're isolated from them.
- towaway15463 4y ago
  Same goes for playing games or browsing on a computer. Most people aren’t capable of keeping up active conversation while immersed in a game or even just reading an article. VR can include other people that are present physically but it really should be treated as a separate activity. You should make time in your day for your loved ones outside of VR.

ar_te 4y ago

My profesor at Uni predicted, that the next computer revolution will be "invisible computing". That firstly basically all everyday items will get chips inside (ie "Smart Things", it was way before Iphone &co) and then computing will bee something in the background. IDK, but it seems plausible to me and looks like we are moving into such future. VR is not compatible with that vision. Most ppl prefer real life to escapism. And event if you want to escape drugs are more fun and more addictive.

WillPostForFood 4y ago
Most ppl prefer real life to escapism. I dunno, escapist industries are pretty big, and occupy quite a big of most people's non-work waking life. Film, tv, video games, books, comics, social media, etc..