7 ms·
Why Is Wine (Almost) Always Made from Grapes?
- simonblack 4y agoBecause if it was made from fermented malt and hops we would call it beer? Wine is made from fermented grapes by definition. Same as mead is made from fermented honey, kumiss is made from fermented mares' milk, kvass is made from fermented bread, and cider is made from fermented apples. Wine made with other produce does exist: You can buy cherry wine and blueberry wine. But the market for them is tiny. They’re seen as a novelty and not taken seriously within the industry. - Being classed as 'novelties', we don't (yet) have standard definitions for those alcoholic drinks made from blueberries, etc. So we tack the word 'wine' on as a temporary fix. I propose that henceforth cherry wine be defined as "Blush", and blueberry wine be defined as "Blurg". "Have a glass of blush". "No I prefer to drink blurg".
- goto11 4y agoIt is a classics to inisist on a simplistic definition which ignores all the history and cultural context of a term, and then no-true-scotsman any objection. Merriam-Webster says: Definition of wine 1a : the alcoholic fermented juice of fresh grapes used as a beverage b : wine or a substitute used in Christian communion services 2 : the alcoholic usually fermented juice of a plant product (such as a fruit) used as a beverage // blackberry wine
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- jhgb 4y ago> a simplistic definition which ignores all the history and cultural context of a term I feel the need to point out if you were to not ignore history, then the word "wine" itself having been derived from the very Indo-European word used for grapevine thousands of years ago makes the connection between "wine" and "grapevine" way stronger than any similar connection one could find for beer.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- goto11 4y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etymological_fallacy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etymological_fallacy The meaning of words change over time as culture change and evolve. The meaning of a word is how it is used, and "wine" have been used for ages to refer to cherry wine, dandelion wine, apple wine, etc. I haven't even heard beer called wine though.
- jhgb 4y agoI'm not committing that fallacy as defined because I'm not making "a claim about the present meaning of a word based exclusively on that word's etymology". > and "wine" have been used for ages to refer to cherry wine, dandelion wine, apple wine, etc. The possible problem with that argument is that compounds are often not the same thing as the intersection of their components. One famous example from my native language is that "pietní akt" refers to a memorial act for the dead (for example, fallen soldiers), whereas merely "akt" refers to a nude painting or sculpture (as in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nude_(art) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nude_(art)). "Pietní akt" is not a subtype of "akt"; it's an idiom/colocation with its own peculiar meaning.
- goto11 4y agoYou have to make the argument to the good people of Merriam-Webster then. I'm just the messenger here.
- roflyear 4y agoBarley wine is a thing. I think the ABV (and yeast used and process of the ingredients) is more an indicator IMO of it being a wine vs something else.
- vba616 4y agoThis is a well-known (to those who know it well) book, but I think there is such a wine in reality: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dandelion_Wine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dandelion_Wine Also, the site http://www.armywormwine.com/ http://www.armywormwine.com/ seems to be down, but here is a discussion: http://hoaxes.org/weblog/comments/army_worm_wine http://hoaxes.org/weblog/comments/army_worm_wine (This seems to be wine made from "army worms", not "worm wine" from the army) And: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lychee_wine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lychee_wine Don't forget https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pruno https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pruno
- sitharus 4y ago"Wine" has been used for alcoholic beverages made from fruits other than grapes (or sometimes flowers, but never apples) since at least 1398 according to the Oxford English Dictionary. Sometimes it's just used as a catch-all for unknown brewed drinks.
- goto11 4y agoCider is also sometimes called apple wine. You can make wine from basically any fruit or plant which have high enough sugar content.
- SenHeng 4y agoCider in Japan is often just some kind of soda. Unless it’s a restaurant run by Aussies, then you unknowingly get drunk, and risk a DUI because you live in the middle of bumfuck no where and driving home is the only option.
- choko 4y agoYep and in those cases, a qualifier is added, such as blueberry wine. If someone refers to something simply as "wine", I think most of us will expect grape.
- throwawaylinux 4y ago"Wine" today means grape wine. People ferment other things and call it dandelion wine or mango wine but not just wine (unless they're trying to be obscure and edgy). OP (and other commenters) is being overly pedantic though, because the article wasn't talking about the name, but why grapes are fermented to make alcoholic drinks more than other fruit. The answer from the article being high sugar, good taste, good availability.
- ygra 4y agoMead is also called honey wine in German at least, so not exclusively fruit (at least if it's used with a qualifier). That's only in normal speech, though, as the trade name 'wine' is exclusively for grape wine.
- goto11 4y agoCherry wine has been produced in Scandinavia for a long time. It is far from a novelty.
- Konohamaru 4y agoDon't forget Dandelion Wine.
- bryans 4y agoEvery organization producing dictionaries includes other fruits as part of the definition for wine. Wine was originally made from all types of fruits, and grapes became the most ubiquitous because of preference for taste. That doesn't make other fruit wines not wine, it just means we most commonly associate the category of fermented fruit drinks with grapes, as that is what has been most commonly available for a very long time. https://www.thoughtco.com/wine-origins-archaeology-and-history-173240 https://www.thoughtco.com/wine-origins-archaeology-and-histo...
- radicality 4y agoDuring covid I walked through half of a sommelier prep book, so I reopened it just now and page 1 already covers “Wine - a fermented beverage from the juice of any fruit, usually grapes.” This is the book if anyone is interested, I found it very accessible. https://books.google.com/books?id=w_pSDwAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false https://books.google.com/books?id=w_pSDwAAQBAJ&printsec=fron...
- wil421 4y agoWe have muscadine wine in the Southern US.[1] Its made with a native grape like fruit. I do not suggest trying it unless you like extremely sweet wine. [1]https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitis_rotundifolia https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitis_rotundifolia
- Reason077 4y agoWine is (almost) always made from grapes because we call it different things when we make it from other fruits. Wine made from apple juice, for example, is called cider.
- quadrifoliate 4y agoFrom the article: > What’s the biggest misunderstanding about fruit wines? > That it’s gotta be sweet. No matter what our tasting menu says, no matter what I say, people always comment, “Oh, it’s not sweet.” And I think, “Well no, I wasn’t lying to you.” This is a large part of the problem, I think. Non-grape "wines" are not going to succeed anywhere other than the US. Other countries have a ton of culture built around grape wine, or just use fruit to brew brandy or moonshine. No one in France is going to start making Chateau d'Prune 2022. Brewing fruit wine in the the US has a reasonable chance of succeeding, but Americans don't really like drinks that are not sweet. They tolerate wine because it is seen as culturally refined due to a lot of marketing. Sweet or semi-sweet wine made from fruits and marketed properly has a chance to substantially impact the American grape wine market.
- LargoLasskhyfv 4y agoOh! Really? [Standard] https://katlenburger.de/ https://katlenburger.de/ [Organic] https://en.franz-stettner.com/ https://en.franz-stettner.com/ Cheers.
- HeyLaughingBoy 4y ago> Americans don't really like drinks that are not sweet Huh? How you explain the insane popularity of beer?
- justsomehnguy 4y agoEh? Give someone, who drinks only lagers, anything with IBU > 35 and they would cry why it is so bitter. I don't know how it tastes for you, bu the most common mainstream beers (ie lagers in some form) are pretty sweet. Belgian? Holy fucking sweet. IPA? Depends. APA? Sweet. Not the soda sweet, but sweet, compared to the plain water.
- 01100011 4y agoSweetness of the finished product is up to the maker. End fermentation early, have more unfermentable sugars, or just add sweetener after fermentation and you have a sweeter wine. You can also choose yeasts that finish earlier. Use an aggressive yeast like champagne yeast and let it run to completion and the product is dryer. I agree though, most Americans expect fruit wines to be sweet.
- Nursie 4y agoYou can buy fruit wines of all different sorts in the UK. But people rarely do, and in general they aren't that great that you'd want to drink much/often. As another poster mentioned, they're largely seen as a novelty. As is mead, which is almost invariably wine-strength and very dense/sweet. Oddly I'm seeing much more mead on the market here in Australia, and much more variation, there are dry, champagne-style meads, and quaffable meads around the 6% mark, as well as various interesting fruited meads and apple+other fruit ciders. I've even seen Cyser sold commercially in a mainstream store. Oh, and for anyone that's ever wondered - "why is it that all the fruit flavoured ciders in the UK are exactly 4% alcohol?" It's the licensing laws. Any drink over 4% that contains fruits other than just apples or pears is considered a wine and taxed a lot more. IIRC this is due to be reformed at some point.
- bombcar 4y agoIIRC some states have similar laws so you have beer that is 4% and lower so it can be sold at grocery stores.
- lmm 4y ago> This is why producers typically add sugar to make non-grape wine. Grapes are one of the lone fruits with the sugar levels for wine’s high ABV and a safe, shelf-stable product. That seems like the clearest answer. For a product with so much mythology and emphasis on single-origin natural ingredients, any seemingly "artificial" substitute will have a huge uphill struggle.
- rich_sasha 4y agoWhat about cider? The usual way to make traditional cider in the UK ("scrumpy") is to simply squeeze out and bottle the juice, and let nature take its course. It typically comes out medium-sweet like this. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scrumpy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scrumpy
- orcul 4y agoBecause grapes are relatively easy to grow abundantly and contain enough sugar to ferment.
- jdontillman 4y agoThe Nashoba Valley Winery near Hudson, Massachusetts features some very tasty wines made from Cranberry/Apple, Pear, Gravenstein, Peach, Plum, Raspberry, Strawberry Rhubarb, and much more. (I'm a big fan.)
- margalabargala 4y agoFYI, Gravenstein is just a variety of apple like Fuji or Honeycrisp, not a separate fruit like the other items in your list.
- gnicholas 4y agoWhen I was visiting Australia, I visited a winery that made ginger wine. It was amazing, and it was what I would want to drink with Asian food 100% of the time. I assumed I'd be able to find ginger wine back in California, but alas no one makes the stuff here! I have actually considered ordering a case of it from the winery in Australia, even though shipping would cost an arm and a leg.
- jhy 4y agoSounds great! Do you remember the name / city of the winery?
- gnicholas 4y agoShannonvale Tropical Fruit Winery, near Port Douglas and Cairns: https://www.shannonvalewine.com.au/ https://www.shannonvalewine.com.au/
- thematrixturtle 4y agoHit up your favorite Asian grocery and ask for 姜酒. The flavor profile may be quite different though.
- gnicholas 4y agoCan you share any additional detail on what this is, or how to pronounce it?
- thematrixturtle 4y agoLiterally "ginger wine" (jiāngjiǔ). Can refer to pretty much any ginger-flavored wine/liquor in China.
- gnicholas 4y agoThanks! Sounds like it could be merely flavored by ginger (and made from fermented grapes/other fruit), or actually made from fermented ginger. Is that right?
- terryf 4y agoHaving grown up with relatives that made LOTS of home made wine from apple juice, I can assure you that wine can be and is made from many other things. The problem is that it just doesn't taste as good as the stuff made from grapes. I've tasted wines made from many different fruits and they're frankly all just ... not great. Not terrible (well, the home made apple wine (please note: WINE, NOT CIDER) was terrible) but just not great either.
- shawnz 4y agoWhat differentiates apple wine from cider?
- enqk 4y agoTo make good cider you want to use special apples, which are not really nice to eat, otherwise the drink is very sour. They do this in the Frankfurt region of Germany, where it’s called apfelwein. They drink it diluted, which helps. Different taste than the ciders from north west of france or the uk
- shawnz 4y agoSo cider is simply an apple wine made with special apples?
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- karlerss 4y agoIf you add sugar in 1:2 ratio to fruits and use a wine yeast, you'll get 12% abv wine.
- terryf 4y agoFor me the difference is in the process. Cider usually ends up being (slightly) carbonated and you let it interact with fresh oxygen. With wine making, you seal the bottle, add yeast and sugar and then add one of those circular tubes with water in it that lets co2 escape but does not let outside air in.
- throwaway787544 4y ago> who often opted for watered-down wine to sterilize pathogens in the water Will this meme ever die? The Greeks didn't know what a pathogen was, much less sterilization. They had clean water. The ancient wells of spring water are still there in Greek cities, still producing. The only time people wrote about using alcohol to make water "safe" was when the army was out in the wilderness and the only water nearby was brackish and stagnant. > and to stay sober enough for symposiums of (allegedly) high-brow thought and debate. Symposiums were just a bro party. They could be serious or salacious, and they could get rowdy; it depended on the host (kinda like today). They drank diluted wine because drinking undiluted wine would turn you mad and only uncivilized cretins drank it undiluted.
- isoprophlex 4y agoAlso I doubt that 10-15% alcohol in water is actually capable of thoroughly sterilizing anything...
- Gehlitio 4y agoThe brew process itself involves heating/cooking. The end result was alcohol below 10%
- rob74 4y agoYou probably can't use it to sterilize a wound, but the alcohol content should be enough to stop bacteria from growing in the beverage itself.
- goto11 4y agoNot if you mix it with water.
- stormbrew 4y agoIt doesn't really have to be sterilized to be safer than stagnant water. Most of the things that make you sick aren't that hardy, I'm pretty sure.
- therusskiy 4y agoPomegranate is my favourite one, but only if it's fresh. 99% of supermarket wine has a black-ish color that appears as wine ages and tastes completely different than fresh.
- Loic 4y agoA winemaker in the Bourgogne told me that one other good reason is the tartaric acid in the grapes. This acid is not decomposed by the bacteria and stabilizes the wine. Not that many fruits have this acid.
- RadixDLT 4y agograpes hold the most water
- kkfx 4y agoBeside it's definition grapes have some advantages over other fruits: - they are many per single plant respect of most berry-alike fruits - their plant last for decades with very deep (even 10+ meters) roots, so it's something able to survive bad weathers in many part of the world, they are also easy to collect by hands - wine taste good alone, mix well with meat to made sausages etc We can use kiwis for instance, but they are more fragile and they are relatively new in many parts of the world...
- beckler 4y agoIf you want to see something wild, go checkout r/prisonhooch.