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> Many seniors (actual seniors, not 3-years-of-experience seniors) have a network and can say "hey I'm looking" and instantly have multiple options that won't h

> Many seniors (actual seniors, not 3-years-of-experience seniors) have a network and can say "hey I'm looking" and instantly have multiple options that won't have them do more than talk to the team and manager for an hour or two. If that. Just wanted to back this up a little bit. This is exactly what happened to me on my last job search. I'm currently in between jobs, starting the new gig after the 4th of July holiday. The company that I went with: I had a 30 minute call with an engineering VP and the hiring manager that was followed by an hour long panel with a few members of the team that I'm joining. I also learned after I had accepted the offer that the person who referred me internally spent about 45 minutes chatting with the same engineering VP about me specifically before they reached out. This was for a staff/lead position and I've got over 15 years in the industry. I specifically sought out referrals from former colleagues and friends where the interview process put a lot of emphasis and weight on the internal referral and it worked out really well for me. I really hope that this is a sign of things to come, not just for myself and my future employment but for others, at least at the ("actual") senior level. edit/ Added some more context...

websap 4y ago
This will not work at FAANG or similar top tier companies. Hiring like this introduces biases. I'd not like to work at a place like this.
scarface74 4y ago
This is me exactly. My prior three jobs were based on my network referring me to a hiring manager (Directors and CTOs), us meeting for lunch and talking about their issues and how I would help them solve them. Then me meeting the rest of the team and them giving me an offer. I would never do a “take home test”. Even my current job at $BigTech - working in the cloud consulting department doing exactly the type of work the original poster is looking for - involved a 5 hour behavioral loop and definitely not a “take home test”. They offered cash and real stock. Not equity that statistically will be worthless.
dominotw 4y ago
really hope they cut out this referral stuff. These guys have turned all of silicon valley into incestuous bro-land. This needs to be made illegal.
- websap 4y ago
  Not sure why you are being downvoted. I share your concern. I'm a minority and moved to the US some years ago. I don't think I share the same college connect or social connect that people have. This puts me at a disadvantage for these referral only hires. Referrals are good source of attracting people, they can be used for additional data points. I'd love to see what the break down of demographics of people hired using this practice.
- sokoloff 4y ago
  It should not IMO (and almost certainly will not) be made illegal. I’ve worked with or near maybe 1000 people in my almost 30 year career. Many of them I’d love to work with again or to refer to friends’ companies. Others, I have the opposite opinion. It seems beyond unreasonable that I couldn’t make use of that information in choosing who I will work with professionally. To me, it’s a clear-cut freedom of association (and/or a freedom of speech) right.
- lolinder 4y ago
  Referrals aren't a silicon valley thing or even a tech thing. The first bit of advice you get from anyone when it comes to a job search in any field is to leverage your network. It's not about discrimination, it's because the single best way to know if someone can pull their weight and mesh with the team is if an existing, trusted member of the team can vouch for them. On the flip side, the single best way to know if a job is worth pursuing is to have it recommended by a trusted colleague. Why would you not use those signals? And why in the world would any government make networking illegal? The economic impact on every sector would be insane!
- scarface74 4y ago
  Referrals mean very little at large tech companies. They basically just guarantee you an initial screen. I’m bombarded with enough recruiter BigTech spam for jobs, I’m sure getting an interview at another one wouldn’t be a problem. I’m also much older and darker than your stereotypical “tech bro” and they actually put me in front of customers. Imagine that!
js2 4y ago
+1. I literally have not had to interview for a job, not for real anyway, since college. I got hired in 1996 right out of college helping a friend move wherein the hiring manager let me know there was another job there. We'd all come out of the same computer science department. By 1999 I was managing the system administration team (dev ops wasn't a thing then) at company 1. In 2000, the same person that hired me at company 1 had joined to a startup in CA. I got hired by him again. I did a basic tech screen via phone, got an offer, the company paid for my move to CA. I was there from 2000-2007 through that company splitting in two and the half I stayed with eventually getting acquired by a Fortune 500, company 3. No interview as part of the acquisition. I also moved in 2004 back to the east coast, again paid for by company 2. I started working mostly from home for company 2 about a year later, which persisted with company 3. In 2009, some of the folks I worked with at company 2/3 founded a startup in CA. Got hired again, this is now company 4, with another pro-forma interview. I worked from home for company 4 from 2009-2013. That company then got acquired by my current employer, company 5. No interview as part of the acquisition. Continued to work from home. My current employer has changed hands twice now, but still calls itself the same as when I was acquired. When I'm ready to go, I have a network of people I've worked with at a variety of tech companies. Company 5 is dysfunctional and filled with mediocre talent, but everyone is so cordial, pay and benefits are good, so I haven't really had reason to leave other than the frustration of dealing with some bureaucracy and creaky legacy systems. I've mostly been insulated from that because I've been responsible for a fairly self-contained system. Now I'm inheriting other people's crap as folks move on, but you know, last week I deleted over 10,000 lines of unused or unneeded code and that was actually pretty satisfying.
dbcurtis 4y ago
The further along in your career, the more network matters. My wife and I both find that to be true.

websap 4y ago

This will not work at FAANG or similar top tier companies. Hiring like this introduces biases. I'd not like to work at a place like this.

scarface74 4y ago

This is me exactly. My prior three jobs were based on my network referring me to a hiring manager (Directors and CTOs), us meeting for lunch and talking about their issues and how I would help them solve them. Then me meeting the rest of the team and them giving me an offer. I would never do a “take home test”. Even my current job at $BigTech - working in the cloud consulting department doing exactly the type of work the original poster is looking for - involved a 5 hour behavioral loop and definitely not a “take home test”. They offered cash and real stock. Not equity that statistically will be worthless.

dominotw 4y ago

really hope they cut out this referral stuff. These guys have turned all of silicon valley into incestuous bro-land. This needs to be made illegal.

websap 4y ago
Not sure why you are being downvoted. I share your concern. I'm a minority and moved to the US some years ago. I don't think I share the same college connect or social connect that people have. This puts me at a disadvantage for these referral only hires. Referrals are good source of attracting people, they can be used for additional data points. I'd love to see what the break down of demographics of people hired using this practice.
sokoloff 4y ago
It should not IMO (and almost certainly will not) be made illegal. I’ve worked with or near maybe 1000 people in my almost 30 year career. Many of them I’d love to work with again or to refer to friends’ companies. Others, I have the opposite opinion. It seems beyond unreasonable that I couldn’t make use of that information in choosing who I will work with professionally. To me, it’s a clear-cut freedom of association (and/or a freedom of speech) right.
lolinder 4y ago
Referrals aren't a silicon valley thing or even a tech thing. The first bit of advice you get from anyone when it comes to a job search in any field is to leverage your network. It's not about discrimination, it's because the single best way to know if someone can pull their weight and mesh with the team is if an existing, trusted member of the team can vouch for them. On the flip side, the single best way to know if a job is worth pursuing is to have it recommended by a trusted colleague. Why would you not use those signals? And why in the world would any government make networking illegal? The economic impact on every sector would be insane!
scarface74 4y ago
Referrals mean very little at large tech companies. They basically just guarantee you an initial screen. I’m bombarded with enough recruiter BigTech spam for jobs, I’m sure getting an interview at another one wouldn’t be a problem. I’m also much older and darker than your stereotypical “tech bro” and they actually put me in front of customers. Imagine that!

js2 4y ago

+1. I literally have not had to interview for a job, not for real anyway, since college. I got hired in 1996 right out of college helping a friend move wherein the hiring manager let me know there was another job there. We'd all come out of the same computer science department. By 1999 I was managing the system administration team (dev ops wasn't a thing then) at company 1. In 2000, the same person that hired me at company 1 had joined to a startup in CA. I got hired by him again. I did a basic tech screen via phone, got an offer, the company paid for my move to CA. I was there from 2000-2007 through that company splitting in two and the half I stayed with eventually getting acquired by a Fortune 500, company 3. No interview as part of the acquisition. I also moved in 2004 back to the east coast, again paid for by company 2. I started working mostly from home for company 2 about a year later, which persisted with company 3. In 2009, some of the folks I worked with at company 2/3 founded a startup in CA. Got hired again, this is now company 4, with another pro-forma interview. I worked from home for company 4 from 2009-2013. That company then got acquired by my current employer, company 5. No interview as part of the acquisition. Continued to work from home. My current employer has changed hands twice now, but still calls itself the same as when I was acquired. When I'm ready to go, I have a network of people I've worked with at a variety of tech companies. Company 5 is dysfunctional and filled with mediocre talent, but everyone is so cordial, pay and benefits are good, so I haven't really had reason to leave other than the frustration of dealing with some bureaucracy and creaky legacy systems. I've mostly been insulated from that because I've been responsible for a fairly self-contained system. Now I'm inheriting other people's crap as folks move on, but you know, last week I deleted over 10,000 lines of unused or unneeded code and that was actually pretty satisfying.

dbcurtis 4y ago

The further along in your career, the more network matters. My wife and I both find that to be true.