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The real problem with Jira is that every company adopts it without sufficient support. It needs dedicated admins. You can't just let every single team YOLO thin

The real problem with Jira is that every company adopts it without sufficient support. It needs dedicated admins. You can't just let every single team YOLO things. Unfortunately, what happens is a company adopts it from the start, and then it grows into an impossible-to-use forest where there's no meaningful way to bring things back to actually usable, and everyone is miserable.

jokethrowaway 4y ago
If a tool needs this level of support it's not a good tool and not even a tool - it's the no-code equivalent of a framework. I'd rather pick any other ticketing system which has things done in one way than waste my life configuring jira
- Pasorrijer 4y ago
  Just about every enterprise tool requires a proper implementation and system admins and business process analysis and change management to get setup. A lot of enterprise tools are "crap, why would the company ever use this", and 90% of that is in the implementation (or lack thereof)
  - Sebguer 4y ago
    Yep! It also comes down to a difference between the people the tool is primarily targeted at, and who actually has to interact with it. Salesforce's CRM (and its various sub-products) is very similar.
- Sebguer 4y ago
  This is an inane take. Almost every system we use in a business requires support, and management to be used effectively. You wouldn't fire the people responsible for maintaining your other services. You can either have something incredibly powerful, like Jira, with a lot of sharp edges, or you can use something incredibly similar. The latter would be more like 'no-code' since it's going to be drastically limited in terms of adapting to how your business does work, versus Jira which can be transformed into just about anything. That 'just about anything' is the root of the problem, since over years a business will let dozens of people alter configurations and do special little bespoke things on their projects until it's unsustainable.
  - AnimalMuppet 4y ago
    > You can either have something incredibly powerful, like Jira, with a lot of sharp edges... It's powerful. But I think a bunch of the dislike is because the edges are not sharp. They're very dull. That's why it's so clumsy to use. (Sure, it's still easy to cause damage, but that's not the same thing...) Disclaimer: I have never actually had to use Jira. This is just my impression from listening to others complain.
    - Sebguer 4y ago
      The point of something being sharp is doing damage with minimal effort, which I think fits here! Though, I won't disagree that a lot of parts of the Jira UX are more blunt-force.
zippergz 4y ago
Dedicated admins make it even worse, because they have the bandwidth and inclination to do all kinds of crazy customization, which is what takes jira from merely bad to terrible. The worst jira instances I've ever seen are the ones that had full-time people customizing them.
- Sebguer 4y ago
  You've clearly not worked in places where it's people part-time customizing them, because I guarantee the outcome is worse!
  - WorldMaker 4y ago
    You are both right! What you really want is a place that doesn't customize Jira at all, and if you find such a place you'll find out that they eventually switched to something else because everyone also hates Jira's default out of the box behaviors.
  - outworlder 4y ago
    I don't know, because the part-time customizers are scratching some itch. Maybe they are messing up because they don't know any better. The full time customizers need to justify their salary.
thomaslord 4y ago
Even with zero customization, just using it for a Kanban board is incredibly slow and frustrating. My 2-person team was using the free version of Target Process and needed to migrate to something else since we hit the entity limit, so we went with Jira because it seemed like the industry standard. What we got was the slowest initial page load and slowest interactions of any webapp I've ever used. After struggling along for 2-3 months, we moved over to Clubhouse (now called Shortcut) and the difference in speed and overall experience is night and day.
sanderjd 4y ago
I honestly can't imagine trying to hire someone for such a terrible job.

jokethrowaway 4y ago

If a tool needs this level of support it's not a good tool and not even a tool - it's the no-code equivalent of a framework. I'd rather pick any other ticketing system which has things done in one way than waste my life configuring jira

Pasorrijer 4y ago
Just about every enterprise tool requires a proper implementation and system admins and business process analysis and change management to get setup. A lot of enterprise tools are "crap, why would the company ever use this", and 90% of that is in the implementation (or lack thereof)
- Sebguer 4y ago
  Yep! It also comes down to a difference between the people the tool is primarily targeted at, and who actually has to interact with it. Salesforce's CRM (and its various sub-products) is very similar.
Sebguer 4y ago
This is an inane take. Almost every system we use in a business requires support, and management to be used effectively. You wouldn't fire the people responsible for maintaining your other services. You can either have something incredibly powerful, like Jira, with a lot of sharp edges, or you can use something incredibly similar. The latter would be more like 'no-code' since it's going to be drastically limited in terms of adapting to how your business does work, versus Jira which can be transformed into just about anything. That 'just about anything' is the root of the problem, since over years a business will let dozens of people alter configurations and do special little bespoke things on their projects until it's unsustainable.
- AnimalMuppet 4y ago
  > You can either have something incredibly powerful, like Jira, with a lot of sharp edges... It's powerful. But I think a bunch of the dislike is because the edges are not sharp. They're very dull. That's why it's so clumsy to use. (Sure, it's still easy to cause damage, but that's not the same thing...) Disclaimer: I have never actually had to use Jira. This is just my impression from listening to others complain.
  - Sebguer 4y ago
    The point of something being sharp is doing damage with minimal effort, which I think fits here! Though, I won't disagree that a lot of parts of the Jira UX are more blunt-force.

zippergz 4y ago

Dedicated admins make it even worse, because they have the bandwidth and inclination to do all kinds of crazy customization, which is what takes jira from merely bad to terrible. The worst jira instances I've ever seen are the ones that had full-time people customizing them.

Sebguer 4y ago
You've clearly not worked in places where it's people part-time customizing them, because I guarantee the outcome is worse!
- WorldMaker 4y ago
  You are both right! What you really want is a place that doesn't customize Jira at all, and if you find such a place you'll find out that they eventually switched to something else because everyone also hates Jira's default out of the box behaviors.
- outworlder 4y ago
  I don't know, because the part-time customizers are scratching some itch. Maybe they are messing up because they don't know any better. The full time customizers need to justify their salary.

thomaslord 4y ago

Even with zero customization, just using it for a Kanban board is incredibly slow and frustrating. My 2-person team was using the free version of Target Process and needed to migrate to something else since we hit the entity limit, so we went with Jira because it seemed like the industry standard. What we got was the slowest initial page load and slowest interactions of any webapp I've ever used. After struggling along for 2-3 months, we moved over to Clubhouse (now called Shortcut) and the difference in speed and overall experience is night and day.

sanderjd 4y ago

I honestly can't imagine trying to hire someone for such a terrible job.