5 ms·

This is definitely not a conspiracy theory. Incentives affect reviews, which is why truly unbiased review sources exist.

Nextgrid 4y ago
Especially when they already have a proven track record of nastiness: https://www.xdesk.com/wirecutter-standing-desk-review-pay-to-play-model https://www.xdesk.com/wirecutter-standing-desk-review-pay-to...
- GavinMcG 4y ago
  I've used the Wirecutter, so I'm not going to claim to be totally unbiased. But I'm just not seeing any nastiness there: the reason they gave for switching their recommendation (while retaining their original recommendation as an upgrade pick) seems entirely legitimate. And as much as the company wants to emphasize the use of the word "kickback" it's not really apt: Wirecutter's model has always been affiliate linking, and that's exactly what they reached out about in their first and second emails. And when turned down, they still published the recommendation and (later) still identified it as the best option if cost isn't an issue.
  - Nextgrid 4y ago
    But the problem is that it ultimately skews the incentives and contradicts their claim that the editors are totally isolated from the commercial part of their business. Their homepage currently suggests the following: > We independently review everything we recommend. When you buy through our links, we may earn a commission [emphasis mine] The "about" page claims: > There’s no incentive for us to pick inferior products or to respond to pressure from manufacturers—in fact, it’s quite the opposite [emphasis mine] That's not really true when the same person who writes the reviews is the one trying to solicit kickbacks in the background, and puts the credibility of the entire website into question. Their adjusted review could be completely legitimate but there's no way to be sure so it's better to err on the side of caution.
    - GavinMcG 4y ago
      Sure, and I'm not saying there's no possible influence in any direction. At the same time, I suspect things are more separate than in 2014, and I don't see that claim on their pages from back then [0][1]. In fact they seemed to have independently reviewed the desks and only then asked about an affiliate program. When they switched their recommendation to Fully, they apparently didn't have an affiliate relationship with them, either. NextDesk calls that "false" — but based on Wirecutter linking to Amazon to earn a commission. That's a bizarre conflation (although like you said it's not nothing) but it's what Wirecutter usually did regardless of the product, and they were up front about it at the time [1]. [0] https://web.archive.org/web/20150603092537/https://thewirecutter.com/reviews/best-standing-desk/ https://web.archive.org/web/20150603092537/https://thewirecu... [1] https://web.archive.org/web/20150518125823/http://thewirecutter.com/how-to-support-the-wirecutter/ https://web.archive.org/web/20150518125823/http://thewirecut... (Wirecutter used the word "kickback" here, too, so if anything it seems like they were trying to be as uncharitable as possible about their own model.)
      - lozenge 4y ago
        Wirecutter's "business team" won't let their "editorial team" review the new iterations of the NextDesk product because if their "unbiased recommendation" is NextDesk, revenue will go down. The CEO was explicit in his email that he looks to maximise revenue on the standing desks page (and by implication, every other page on the site). The "business team" was explicit - the editorial team doesn't act directly, they can only get review units arranged by the business team - which is refusing to receive review units because no affiliate program is in place.
        GavinMcG 4y ago
        Eight years ago, right? Are they refusing now? (Genuinely curious if you've got up-to-date info. If they are terribly biased I want to know it, so I can downgrade my trust, which is why I upvoted the OP about the air purifier.) Also, it's not really clear to me that "independently review" has to mean "we completely isolate any business-related decision-making from editorial functions" as Nextgrid seems to assume.
- elromulous 4y ago
  Oh wow! I hadn't seen this. Thanks for sharing.
hammock 4y ago
Sometimes conspiracy theories are true. They are still conspiracy theories
- CharlesW 4y ago
  “A conspiracy theory is not the same as a conspiracy; instead, it refers to a hypothesized conspiracy…” https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspiracy_theory https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspiracy_theory
  - bombcar 4y ago
    Exactly, if they're true it's a conspiracy fact or just a conspiracy. And even if they do NOT take kickbacks, there's no financial incentive at all to "link" to a sales page that doesn't offer affiliate links, where there is one to link. And so the best way to handle this is to not review at all products that aren't available through said sites. Think Southwest tickets not being available from aggregators.
    - CharlesW 4y ago
      > And even if they do NOT take kickbacks, there's no financial incentive at all to "link" to a sales page that doesn't offer affiliate links… And yet Wirecutter does this. https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/reviews/best-stuff-from-ikea/ https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/reviews/best-stuff-from-i...
  - jstanley 4y ago
    A conspiracy is when people collude in secret. A conspiracy theory is a theory that some people collude in secret. Conspiracy theories are true when they correspond to true conspiracies.
    - Gigachad 4y ago
      People get the idea that theory means wrong or imaginary when it really means the concept of something rather than the actual thing. But the concept can be correct and fully proven like the theory of math or physics.

Nextgrid 4y ago

Especially when they already have a proven track record of nastiness: https://www.xdesk.com/wirecutter-standing-desk-review-pay-to-play-model https://www.xdesk.com/wirecutter-standing-desk-review-pay-to...

GavinMcG 4y ago
I've used the Wirecutter, so I'm not going to claim to be totally unbiased. But I'm just not seeing any nastiness there: the reason they gave for switching their recommendation (while retaining their original recommendation as an upgrade pick) seems entirely legitimate. And as much as the company wants to emphasize the use of the word "kickback" it's not really apt: Wirecutter's model has always been affiliate linking, and that's exactly what they reached out about in their first and second emails. And when turned down, they still published the recommendation and (later) still identified it as the best option if cost isn't an issue.
- Nextgrid 4y ago
  But the problem is that it ultimately skews the incentives and contradicts their claim that the editors are totally isolated from the commercial part of their business. Their homepage currently suggests the following: > We independently review everything we recommend. When you buy through our links, we may earn a commission [emphasis mine] The "about" page claims: > There’s no incentive for us to pick inferior products or to respond to pressure from manufacturers—in fact, it’s quite the opposite [emphasis mine] That's not really true when the same person who writes the reviews is the one trying to solicit kickbacks in the background, and puts the credibility of the entire website into question. Their adjusted review could be completely legitimate but there's no way to be sure so it's better to err on the side of caution.
  - GavinMcG 4y ago
    Sure, and I'm not saying there's no possible influence in any direction. At the same time, I suspect things are more separate than in 2014, and I don't see that claim on their pages from back then [0][1]. In fact they seemed to have independently reviewed the desks and only then asked about an affiliate program. When they switched their recommendation to Fully, they apparently didn't have an affiliate relationship with them, either. NextDesk calls that "false" — but based on Wirecutter linking to Amazon to earn a commission. That's a bizarre conflation (although like you said it's not nothing) but it's what Wirecutter usually did regardless of the product, and they were up front about it at the time [1]. [0] https://web.archive.org/web/20150603092537/https://thewirecutter.com/reviews/best-standing-desk/ https://web.archive.org/web/20150603092537/https://thewirecu... [1] https://web.archive.org/web/20150518125823/http://thewirecutter.com/how-to-support-the-wirecutter/ https://web.archive.org/web/20150518125823/http://thewirecut... (Wirecutter used the word "kickback" here, too, so if anything it seems like they were trying to be as uncharitable as possible about their own model.)
    - lozenge 4y ago
      Wirecutter's "business team" won't let their "editorial team" review the new iterations of the NextDesk product because if their "unbiased recommendation" is NextDesk, revenue will go down. The CEO was explicit in his email that he looks to maximise revenue on the standing desks page (and by implication, every other page on the site). The "business team" was explicit - the editorial team doesn't act directly, they can only get review units arranged by the business team - which is refusing to receive review units because no affiliate program is in place.
      - GavinMcG 4y ago
        Eight years ago, right? Are they refusing now? (Genuinely curious if you've got up-to-date info. If they are terribly biased I want to know it, so I can downgrade my trust, which is why I upvoted the OP about the air purifier.) Also, it's not really clear to me that "independently review" has to mean "we completely isolate any business-related decision-making from editorial functions" as Nextgrid seems to assume.
elromulous 4y ago
Oh wow! I hadn't seen this. Thanks for sharing.

hammock 4y ago

Sometimes conspiracy theories are true. They are still conspiracy theories

CharlesW 4y ago
“A conspiracy theory is not the same as a conspiracy; instead, it refers to a hypothesized conspiracy…” https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspiracy_theory https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspiracy_theory
- bombcar 4y ago
  Exactly, if they're true it's a conspiracy fact or just a conspiracy. And even if they do NOT take kickbacks, there's no financial incentive at all to "link" to a sales page that doesn't offer affiliate links, where there is one to link. And so the best way to handle this is to not review at all products that aren't available through said sites. Think Southwest tickets not being available from aggregators.
  - CharlesW 4y ago
    > And even if they do NOT take kickbacks, there's no financial incentive at all to "link" to a sales page that doesn't offer affiliate links… And yet Wirecutter does this. https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/reviews/best-stuff-from-ikea/ https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/reviews/best-stuff-from-i...
- jstanley 4y ago
  A conspiracy is when people collude in secret. A conspiracy theory is a theory that some people collude in secret. Conspiracy theories are true when they correspond to true conspiracies.
  - Gigachad 4y ago
    People get the idea that theory means wrong or imaginary when it really means the concept of something rather than the actual thing. But the concept can be correct and fully proven like the theory of math or physics.