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I don't think so. Us privacy and control freaks abhor subscriptions, the mainstream just shrugs and pays what they're told to pay. I can even see them adopting

I don't think so. Us privacy and control freaks abhor subscriptions, the mainstream just shrugs and pays what they're told to pay. I can even see them adopting rental models for a lot of stuff we purchase outright now (the "you will own nothing and you will be happy" great reset promoted by the world economic forum). I think this is pretty exploitative but I'm pretty sure I am in a minority. Obviously big business loves this because they have to do almost nothing and still get guaranteed income. But to me their arguments sound too much like blackmail "With this model there is incentive for us to make longer-lasting products which is good for the environment". Well, sure but if you actually cared about the environment instead of money you'd be doing that right now. Why do we have to pay them more for less in order for them to do this? To me this really sounds like a "pay us what we want or we'll mess up this environment of yours even more" extortion scheme. The older generation is more against it but they tend to not trust tech very much anyway. They're not the ones buying a new phone every year, they use it for many years and even get it fixed when it breaks.

mechanical_bear 4y ago
> you will own nothing and you will be happy Too easy and lazy to blame this on some grand conspiracy. Reality is much more complicated, and cuts to heart of human behavior.
- GekkePrutser 4y ago
  Conspiracy no. But I don't like where the world is headed. Investors are demanding ever more markup on products and services. Nobody is happy with a 10% markup anymore in electronics. There seems to be a constant flow of money to the ultra-rich away from the poorer people, and this is something that has been constantly going on for the last decades. Because the squeeze is finally starting to hit the mainstream of the richer countries. Even the US is starting to see instability from this. I think part of this is the free market which only really works on "MORE". More turnover, more customers, more products YoY. If you make a loss or invest in something for the common good a company isn't just frowned upon, they are putting themselves at liability of due diligence lawsuits. Most of the societal and environmental problems we are seeing stem from this, in my opinion. We need to fix the system before it's too late, not pamper to it. I don't think there is a dark "SPECTRE" style gathering going on at Davos, no. I'm not a conspiracy theorist. However I do see there is zero incentive to improving the status quo if it doesn't make some rich people much richer yet again. This is why I see the WEF as a 'bad' entity, for promoting such things which are clearly undesirable. It's a very one-sided image. For me as a tinkerer and maker the idea of renting my stuff and not being allowed to improve or repair it, is absolutely unthinkable and something that must be fought tooth and nail.
dathinab 4y ago
> mainstream just shrugs and pays what they're told to pay. But mullvad isn't targeting mainstream! It's mainstream compatible, as-in not too hard to use, but that's it. Also mainstream only cares about VPNs because they believe it does magically things, like somehow better protecting all your privacy even if you are logged into Facebook or somehow making account hijacking or banking scams less likely :/ That's why they will go anyway with VPN providers which do a lot of ad advertisement to make them subconscious feel like it's doing all this magical things (even if they never explicitly claim it). Like NordVPN (you probably know what I mean if you use e.g. twitch in the EU ;=) ). So no point in competing for this users without doing things like a ad powered free plan, free testing month, and tons of dark-ish patterns. Instead mullvad has I think a good idea about what works with their customers. I think it still will cost them money (who hasn't forgotten to cancel and abo) but also might save them money (not having to handle anything in support related to subscriptions going wrong). And maybe with things like people pre-paying for a year, but stop using it after a few month it will also not cost them anything. Really hard to say. I mean it was also guaranteed to end up on HN, so free advertisement to exactly the right audience. That's worth some money, too.
- GekkePrutser 4y ago
  > But mullvad isn't targeting mainstream! I agree, this is precisely why they're doing this. Putting their customers' privacy over their investors' wallets. This is a big ballsy move IMO. They're buying a lot of goodwill here. And taking a risk. > Also mainstream only cares about VPNs because they believe it does magically things, like somehow better protecting all your privacy even if you are logged into Facebook or somehow making account hijacking or banking scams less likely :/ Also totally agreed lol. I often get questions from friends about VPNs. Always have to explain that privacy really doesn't work if you willingly give up your data :) And no I don't use Twitch so not sure what you mean there, sounds like an interesting story. > So no point in competing for this users without doing things like a ad powered free plan, free testing month, and tons of dark-ish patterns. Instead mullvad has I think a good idea about what works with their customers. Exactly. They're not doing a tunnelbear. > I think it still will cost them money (who hasn't forgotten to cancel and abo) but also might save them money (not having to handle anything in support related to subscriptions going wrong). And maybe with things like people pre-paying for a year, but stop using it after a few month it will also not cost them anything. Really hard to say. I mean it was also guaranteed to end up on HN, so free advertisement to exactly the right audience. That's worth some money, too. I agree it's ballsy, this makes me respect the gesture even more. It's not the 'done thing' in this day and age. But they're still doing it and for the right reason.

mechanical_bear 4y ago

> you will own nothing and you will be happy Too easy and lazy to blame this on some grand conspiracy. Reality is much more complicated, and cuts to heart of human behavior.

GekkePrutser 4y ago
Conspiracy no. But I don't like where the world is headed. Investors are demanding ever more markup on products and services. Nobody is happy with a 10% markup anymore in electronics. There seems to be a constant flow of money to the ultra-rich away from the poorer people, and this is something that has been constantly going on for the last decades. Because the squeeze is finally starting to hit the mainstream of the richer countries. Even the US is starting to see instability from this. I think part of this is the free market which only really works on "MORE". More turnover, more customers, more products YoY. If you make a loss or invest in something for the common good a company isn't just frowned upon, they are putting themselves at liability of due diligence lawsuits. Most of the societal and environmental problems we are seeing stem from this, in my opinion. We need to fix the system before it's too late, not pamper to it. I don't think there is a dark "SPECTRE" style gathering going on at Davos, no. I'm not a conspiracy theorist. However I do see there is zero incentive to improving the status quo if it doesn't make some rich people much richer yet again. This is why I see the WEF as a 'bad' entity, for promoting such things which are clearly undesirable. It's a very one-sided image. For me as a tinkerer and maker the idea of renting my stuff and not being allowed to improve or repair it, is absolutely unthinkable and something that must be fought tooth and nail.

dathinab 4y ago

> mainstream just shrugs and pays what they're told to pay. But mullvad isn't targeting mainstream! It's mainstream compatible, as-in not too hard to use, but that's it. Also mainstream only cares about VPNs because they believe it does magically things, like somehow better protecting all your privacy even if you are logged into Facebook or somehow making account hijacking or banking scams less likely :/ That's why they will go anyway with VPN providers which do a lot of ad advertisement to make them subconscious feel like it's doing all this magical things (even if they never explicitly claim it). Like NordVPN (you probably know what I mean if you use e.g. twitch in the EU ;=) ). So no point in competing for this users without doing things like a ad powered free plan, free testing month, and tons of dark-ish patterns. Instead mullvad has I think a good idea about what works with their customers. I think it still will cost them money (who hasn't forgotten to cancel and abo) but also might save them money (not having to handle anything in support related to subscriptions going wrong). And maybe with things like people pre-paying for a year, but stop using it after a few month it will also not cost them anything. Really hard to say. I mean it was also guaranteed to end up on HN, so free advertisement to exactly the right audience. That's worth some money, too.

GekkePrutser 4y ago
> But mullvad isn't targeting mainstream! I agree, this is precisely why they're doing this. Putting their customers' privacy over their investors' wallets. This is a big ballsy move IMO. They're buying a lot of goodwill here. And taking a risk. > Also mainstream only cares about VPNs because they believe it does magically things, like somehow better protecting all your privacy even if you are logged into Facebook or somehow making account hijacking or banking scams less likely :/ Also totally agreed lol. I often get questions from friends about VPNs. Always have to explain that privacy really doesn't work if you willingly give up your data :) And no I don't use Twitch so not sure what you mean there, sounds like an interesting story. > So no point in competing for this users without doing things like a ad powered free plan, free testing month, and tons of dark-ish patterns. Instead mullvad has I think a good idea about what works with their customers. Exactly. They're not doing a tunnelbear. > I think it still will cost them money (who hasn't forgotten to cancel and abo) but also might save them money (not having to handle anything in support related to subscriptions going wrong). And maybe with things like people pre-paying for a year, but stop using it after a few month it will also not cost them anything. Really hard to say. I mean it was also guaranteed to end up on HN, so free advertisement to exactly the right audience. That's worth some money, too. I agree it's ballsy, this makes me respect the gesture even more. It's not the 'done thing' in this day and age. But they're still doing it and for the right reason.