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I might agree if the expectation is that someone also has a deep understanding of infrastructure, but I'm not convinced by the rest. I know a few exceptional s

by ishjoh 4y ago

I might agree if the expectation is that someone also has a deep understanding of infrastructure, but I'm not convinced by the rest. I know a few exceptional software folks who have a deep understanding of React and Java backends. The problem for the most part is that it has been difficult to be a full stack engineer because of the churn of FE software frameworks. Now that React has be around for a while, it is well understood by many people and having a decade of software experience means that you can be very competent and knowledgable about both the FE and BE. My expectation is that if React stays popular and is generally similar to how it works today, we will see a lot more people be able to do both FE and BE systems. Typically a person will still be stronger at one than the other, but they can still be great at both.

calvinmorrison 4y ago
> because of the churn of FE software frameworks. Totally this. I can do javascript. I have written a LOT of javascript in my life. I worked with jQuery, I've worked with React, I have worked with knockout and this and that and this and. Meanwhile my backend stuff hasn't changed all that much in 10 years. Yes I learn new things, but what I know about javascript and web development has largely gone out the window.
- ryanbrunner 4y ago
  I think in my experience what has traditionally been a challenge straddling the front-end and backend sides of a full stack developer in a SPA + backend API world is not the complexities of the technologies (it's not uncommon for backend developers to have a workable understanding of React and vice versa), but the sheer amount of 1st party code to deal with when working in both areas.
  - calvinmorrison 4y ago
    I'm working on turning around a site that's been up and steady for about 5 years. there's no less than 6 different various 'helper' 'foundation' libraries, helper libraries, utility libraries, libraries that don't get used anymore. All interpolated into a mess. This whole thing is developed by some rotating cast of developers on contracts, who have no interest in maintaining anything long term, and so its just piled up and piled up. Technical debt doesn't exist when you will leave the project for the next guy. Anyway... we're making progress against it slowly but it's really frustrating because our website is loading so much crap and untangling it takes forever. Half of me wants to throw the whole thing out.

by ishjoh 4y ago

calvinmorrison 4y ago

> because of the churn of FE software frameworks. Totally this. I can do javascript. I have written a LOT of javascript in my life. I worked with jQuery, I've worked with React, I have worked with knockout and this and that and this and. Meanwhile my backend stuff hasn't changed all that much in 10 years. Yes I learn new things, but what I know about javascript and web development has largely gone out the window.

ryanbrunner 4y ago
I think in my experience what has traditionally been a challenge straddling the front-end and backend sides of a full stack developer in a SPA + backend API world is not the complexities of the technologies (it's not uncommon for backend developers to have a workable understanding of React and vice versa), but the sheer amount of 1st party code to deal with when working in both areas.
- calvinmorrison 4y ago
  I'm working on turning around a site that's been up and steady for about 5 years. there's no less than 6 different various 'helper' 'foundation' libraries, helper libraries, utility libraries, libraries that don't get used anymore. All interpolated into a mess. This whole thing is developed by some rotating cast of developers on contracts, who have no interest in maintaining anything long term, and so its just piled up and piled up. Technical debt doesn't exist when you will leave the project for the next guy. Anyway... we're making progress against it slowly but it's really frustrating because our website is loading so much crap and untangling it takes forever. Half of me wants to throw the whole thing out.