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"We"? Which "we"? The larger you make the pool, the smaller your individual impact is in that pool. If your "we" includes everyone in the US, then your voice

"We"? Which "we"? The larger you make the pool, the smaller your individual impact is in that pool. If your "we" includes everyone in the US, then your voice is one of ~330m people, and should have vanishingly small impact. If "we" includes ~8b people, then your voice is ~20x smaller still. I think you'd be surprised at how many of those ~330m (or ~8b) people would be perfectly okay with what Apple has done, and generally how much more important property rights are to what "we" have built than some esoteric fight about how you don't want to allow me the right to sell my privacy for a price I deem appropriate. "We" don't want you to tell us what we can and can't do with our own data. Maybe we are perfectly happy to let Apple have some of our data, and are honestly tired of hearing you talk about how we don't know any better.

stale2002 4y ago
> We"? Which "we"? The "we" that is currently going through the Democratic process of passing laws which are almost certainly going to pass. > "We" don't want you to tell us Feel free to vote for a different lawmaker then. Or that is what you should have done, because it is too late in Europe already. They are going to pass the digital markets act. Go participate in democracy if you disagree.
- ericmay 4y ago
  > Go participate in democracy if you disagree. Thanks - this actually inspired me to write to my senator and congressional rep at the federal level in the US to not regulate Apple or its ability to decide what content goes on the iOS App Store. I love the iPhone and App Store, and Apple has earned my trust with their stewardship of it, and there is no logical reason that they should be regulated differently than any other marketplace. Any proposed changes or regulations that I've seen that target the iOS App Store are bad for me personally. I'd actually like to see us pass a digital markets act or similar that guarantees Apple (and Google, etc.) stewardship over their products and platforms. Certainly I'm one of many voices (honestly outside of a place like HN or tech journals nobody gives even the slightest shit about what Apple does on the App Store) here, but I'll make sure my voice is heard to the extent that it makes sense to engage here.
  - ohgodplsno 4y ago
    Calling for serfdom certainly is an interesting take. Remember to ask Tim Cook if he needs you to shine his shoes next time
    - MichaelZuo 4y ago
      Ad-hominems undermine your argument and reinforce the opponent's.
      - ohgodplsno 4y ago
        You having failed rethorics and basic literature classes does not make your arguments more valid. This is not how ad-hominems work, no matter how many times you've read it on Substack.
        MichaelZuo 4y ago
        I have a policy of disengaging from low effort trolling. Though I do hope you reflect on why low effort trolling brings down the vibe on HN.
        ohgodplsno 4y ago
        The only vibe there is on HN is overly confident tech bros speaking on subjects they know nothing about.
  - stale2002 4y ago
    > this actually inspired me to write to my senator and congressional rep You could do this yes. But I think efforts to fights these laws will fail. The digital markets act is already almost guaranteed to pass in Europe, and once Europe has a law on this, the effects will go global. Whats Apple going to do? Pull out of all of Europe? Do a failed attempt to segregate the market, by making an unlocked EU phone, and a locked USA one (What happens when people import the phones? Sounds pretty easy to get around...)? Once the floodgates are open, you aren't going to be able to prevent people from installing whatever app store they want on their own phone. > that I've seen that target the iOS App Store are bad for me personally. Fortunately, you'll still have the choice to only install the iOS app store if you want. You just won't be able to prevent other people from installing whatever app store they want on their phone.
oneoff786 4y ago
So if America declares some laws that state Apple can’t do this shit you’ll be cool with it because the large group did do some collective action, right? Because your problem isn’t the issue but that we just haven’t done it with laws?
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- TameAntelope 4y ago
  My "issue" here is that you're presupposing this is what the people want, and that Apple is acting incongruently with what American society was built by "us" to support. I'd use my one vote and my voice to try and avoid that situation, but I accept that in a democracy my vote is not meant to have a significant impact. For something like "data privacy" I'd go with what the country wants (not that I really have a choice), but I doubt the country would vote that way considering what we've built is largely based on the concepts of freedom and private ownership. It seems antithetical to those ideas to prohibit people from selling what we tend to agree is rightfully theirs.
  - stale2002 4y ago
    > is that you're presupposing this is what the people want, At least in Europe it is pretty clear that this is what people want. And they are almost certainly going to pass a law that regulates Apple. > to prohibit people from selling what we tend to agree is rightfully theirs. The phone belongs to the user once they buy it. That phone is rightfully theirs, and these new laws will allow a user to do what they want with that phone. Apple also has the protection of patent and copyright laws. Those are government regulation that prevent other people from selling software. If we really want to go full "people should be allowed to do what they want, with things that they own", then perhaps we should allow everyone to manufacture iPhones, and sell modified versions of that software. (as in literally, people should be allowed to steal Apple's, and make actual iPhones) I am sure that there are some factories that already have access to iPhone manufacturing plans that would be happy to do what they want with their own property, and sell iPhones themselves.

stale2002 4y ago

> We"? Which "we"? The "we" that is currently going through the Democratic process of passing laws which are almost certainly going to pass. > "We" don't want you to tell us Feel free to vote for a different lawmaker then. Or that is what you should have done, because it is too late in Europe already. They are going to pass the digital markets act. Go participate in democracy if you disagree.

ericmay 4y ago
> Go participate in democracy if you disagree. Thanks - this actually inspired me to write to my senator and congressional rep at the federal level in the US to not regulate Apple or its ability to decide what content goes on the iOS App Store. I love the iPhone and App Store, and Apple has earned my trust with their stewardship of it, and there is no logical reason that they should be regulated differently than any other marketplace. Any proposed changes or regulations that I've seen that target the iOS App Store are bad for me personally. I'd actually like to see us pass a digital markets act or similar that guarantees Apple (and Google, etc.) stewardship over their products and platforms. Certainly I'm one of many voices (honestly outside of a place like HN or tech journals nobody gives even the slightest shit about what Apple does on the App Store) here, but I'll make sure my voice is heard to the extent that it makes sense to engage here.
- ohgodplsno 4y ago
  Calling for serfdom certainly is an interesting take. Remember to ask Tim Cook if he needs you to shine his shoes next time
  - MichaelZuo 4y ago
    Ad-hominems undermine your argument and reinforce the opponent's.
    - ohgodplsno 4y ago
      You having failed rethorics and basic literature classes does not make your arguments more valid. This is not how ad-hominems work, no matter how many times you've read it on Substack.
      - MichaelZuo 4y ago
        I have a policy of disengaging from low effort trolling. Though I do hope you reflect on why low effort trolling brings down the vibe on HN.
        ohgodplsno 4y ago
        The only vibe there is on HN is overly confident tech bros speaking on subjects they know nothing about.
- stale2002 4y ago
  > this actually inspired me to write to my senator and congressional rep You could do this yes. But I think efforts to fights these laws will fail. The digital markets act is already almost guaranteed to pass in Europe, and once Europe has a law on this, the effects will go global. Whats Apple going to do? Pull out of all of Europe? Do a failed attempt to segregate the market, by making an unlocked EU phone, and a locked USA one (What happens when people import the phones? Sounds pretty easy to get around...)? Once the floodgates are open, you aren't going to be able to prevent people from installing whatever app store they want on their own phone. > that I've seen that target the iOS App Store are bad for me personally. Fortunately, you'll still have the choice to only install the iOS app store if you want. You just won't be able to prevent other people from installing whatever app store they want on their phone.

oneoff786 4y ago

So if America declares some laws that state Apple can’t do this shit you’ll be cool with it because the large group did do some collective action, right? Because your problem isn’t the issue but that we just haven’t done it with laws?

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
TameAntelope 4y ago
My "issue" here is that you're presupposing this is what the people want, and that Apple is acting incongruently with what American society was built by "us" to support. I'd use my one vote and my voice to try and avoid that situation, but I accept that in a democracy my vote is not meant to have a significant impact. For something like "data privacy" I'd go with what the country wants (not that I really have a choice), but I doubt the country would vote that way considering what we've built is largely based on the concepts of freedom and private ownership. It seems antithetical to those ideas to prohibit people from selling what we tend to agree is rightfully theirs.
- stale2002 4y ago
  > is that you're presupposing this is what the people want, At least in Europe it is pretty clear that this is what people want. And they are almost certainly going to pass a law that regulates Apple. > to prohibit people from selling what we tend to agree is rightfully theirs. The phone belongs to the user once they buy it. That phone is rightfully theirs, and these new laws will allow a user to do what they want with that phone. Apple also has the protection of patent and copyright laws. Those are government regulation that prevent other people from selling software. If we really want to go full "people should be allowed to do what they want, with things that they own", then perhaps we should allow everyone to manufacture iPhones, and sell modified versions of that software. (as in literally, people should be allowed to steal Apple's, and make actual iPhones) I am sure that there are some factories that already have access to iPhone manufacturing plans that would be happy to do what they want with their own property, and sell iPhones themselves.