6 ms·

Have Mullvad's privacy guarantees been tested by subpoena?

by causality0 4y ago

znpy 4y ago
This does not apply. They’re european, a subpoena from the us government wouldn’t have any effect on them.
- bragr 4y ago
  Europe has courts, subpoenas, warrants, police, and all that too so I don't see how that affects the question? The US as mutual legal aid treaties with most European countries as well.
- stjohnswarts 4y ago
  that's not true, the USA has agreements to exchange information on citizens with the vast majority of European countries. While a local yokel might have a rough time, the federal government would only have to put in a request and wait a while. The only cost is the effort to file for it.
tacker2000 4y ago
They are based in Sweden, which could be an issue since they are part of the 14-eyes alliance. https://www.cnet.com/tech/services-and-software/mullvad-review-solid-security-and-privacy-but-swedish-jurisdiction-is-concerning/ https://www.cnet.com/tech/services-and-software/mullvad-revi...
- INTPenis 4y ago
  Yeah I think that's why they're trying to minimize the amount of data they have on store, because they know that a repeat of the TPB raid can happen any time. If the Swedish courts find sufficient reason to do so, they will go in without warning and seize what they feel like.
wfhordie 4y ago
If your threat model includes nation state intervention, a 5 Euro VPN isn't going to help you. In fact, no VPN is going to help you. The best you can get is probably Tor + Tails, but even then you better be looking over your shoulder.
- spupe 4y ago
  That's not necessarily true. A lot of state surveillance comes through having backdoor or legal access to lots of services. Many VPNs have been tested in court on whether they actually have information on you to disclose, and some even have independent audits to verify that such information is not even kept.
  - wfhordie 4y ago
    At best, you can hope to make surveilling you more expensive or more inconvenient. But if Snowden taught us anything, it's that whatever you needed to do to get yourself tangled up in the 5/14 eyes trip-wire, you've already done, long ago, and continue to do. VPNs don't mean shit. You're leaking data everywhere you go. Browser fingerprinting, WiFi/BT signals, cell tower signals, GPS. If you own a smart phone and a credit card you're already fucked. Let's not confuse things for people by making them think if they plop a 5 Euro VPN between them and their yahoo! email account that this does anything at all to deter state level actors. VPNs are good for a few things: (1) Evading state-sponsored censorship (which uses technology minted in good old Silicon Valley) -- where the state doesn't really care unless you're really bothering them (2) Marginally disrupting the pan-opticon that is surveillance capitalism by mixing the signals a bit, where your ISP can't sell you out to data brokers. But even then... DNS leaks, etc still happen and still fuck with the plan. (3) Maybe not getting scooped up as badly in the state dragnet, and maybe not being accused of something you actually didn't have anything to do with. But brother, if you think you're gonna be the next Ross Ulbrich with your Mullvad VPN, then you better be memorizing your recipe for toilet wine because you're gonna land in a fed pen.
    - spupe 4y ago
      Mate, I don't know if you realize this, but most people here just want to hide due to minor privacy concerns, not a plan to overthrow the government or some shit. Of course if the FBI is after you, no, Mullvad won't protect you. But in the more realistic scenario that Disney might be after you, would Mullvad be a liability or not, that is the question.
jacooper 4y ago
Not a subporna, but a third party auditor.
- mjmsmith 4y ago
  https://github.com/mullvad/mullvadvpn-app/tree/master/audits https://github.com/mullvad/mullvadvpn-app/tree/master/audits

Have Mullvad's privacy guarantees been tested by subpoena?

znpy 4y ago

This does not apply. They’re european, a subpoena from the us government wouldn’t have any effect on them.

bragr 4y ago
Europe has courts, subpoenas, warrants, police, and all that too so I don't see how that affects the question? The US as mutual legal aid treaties with most European countries as well.
stjohnswarts 4y ago
that's not true, the USA has agreements to exchange information on citizens with the vast majority of European countries. While a local yokel might have a rough time, the federal government would only have to put in a request and wait a while. The only cost is the effort to file for it.

tacker2000 4y ago

They are based in Sweden, which could be an issue since they are part of the 14-eyes alliance. https://www.cnet.com/tech/services-and-software/mullvad-review-solid-security-and-privacy-but-swedish-jurisdiction-is-concerning/ https://www.cnet.com/tech/services-and-software/mullvad-revi...

INTPenis 4y ago
Yeah I think that's why they're trying to minimize the amount of data they have on store, because they know that a repeat of the TPB raid can happen any time. If the Swedish courts find sufficient reason to do so, they will go in without warning and seize what they feel like.

wfhordie 4y ago

If your threat model includes nation state intervention, a 5 Euro VPN isn't going to help you. In fact, no VPN is going to help you. The best you can get is probably Tor + Tails, but even then you better be looking over your shoulder.

spupe 4y ago
That's not necessarily true. A lot of state surveillance comes through having backdoor or legal access to lots of services. Many VPNs have been tested in court on whether they actually have information on you to disclose, and some even have independent audits to verify that such information is not even kept.
- wfhordie 4y ago
  At best, you can hope to make surveilling you more expensive or more inconvenient. But if Snowden taught us anything, it's that whatever you needed to do to get yourself tangled up in the 5/14 eyes trip-wire, you've already done, long ago, and continue to do. VPNs don't mean shit. You're leaking data everywhere you go. Browser fingerprinting, WiFi/BT signals, cell tower signals, GPS. If you own a smart phone and a credit card you're already fucked. Let's not confuse things for people by making them think if they plop a 5 Euro VPN between them and their yahoo! email account that this does anything at all to deter state level actors. VPNs are good for a few things: (1) Evading state-sponsored censorship (which uses technology minted in good old Silicon Valley) -- where the state doesn't really care unless you're really bothering them (2) Marginally disrupting the pan-opticon that is surveillance capitalism by mixing the signals a bit, where your ISP can't sell you out to data brokers. But even then... DNS leaks, etc still happen and still fuck with the plan. (3) Maybe not getting scooped up as badly in the state dragnet, and maybe not being accused of something you actually didn't have anything to do with. But brother, if you think you're gonna be the next Ross Ulbrich with your Mullvad VPN, then you better be memorizing your recipe for toilet wine because you're gonna land in a fed pen.
  - spupe 4y ago
    Mate, I don't know if you realize this, but most people here just want to hide due to minor privacy concerns, not a plan to overthrow the government or some shit. Of course if the FBI is after you, no, Mullvad won't protect you. But in the more realistic scenario that Disney might be after you, would Mullvad be a liability or not, that is the question.

jacooper 4y ago

Not a subporna, but a third party auditor.

mjmsmith 4y ago
https://github.com/mullvad/mullvadvpn-app/tree/master/audits https://github.com/mullvad/mullvadvpn-app/tree/master/audits