6 ms·

If you're familiar with the sizeable benefits of the subscription model for a business you'll recognize this is a big deal.

by skeeter2020 4y ago

yreg 4y ago
They still use a subscription model it's just a non-recurring one.
- karaterobot 4y ago
  Part of the advantage of the recurring subscription model is having predictable revenue every month due to it being recurring. And many businesses count on that "gym membership" effect, where people who don't use a service also don't take the time to cancel it for a while.
  - disiplus 4y ago
    that's me and my audible subscription. i should cancel it, but before that i have to use the credits.
    - krallja 4y ago
      Holy cow, that’s evil. https://help.audible.com/s/article/do-i-keep-my-credits-if-i-cancel-my-audible-premium-plus-membership?language=en_US https://help.audible.com/s/article/do-i-keep-my-credits-if-i... Do I keep my credits if I cancel my Audible Premium Plus membership? No. If you end your Audible Premium Plus membership, your credits will be lost with your other membership benefits.
      - dfinninger 4y ago
        I wind up pausing my subscription when I get too many credits. It’s not a full cancellation, but I don’t have to pay.
        DesiLurker 4y ago
        IIRC problem is the option of pausing subscriptions is well hidden & revealed only when you have fully made up your mind to cancel & drop all your credits. most folks would not do that instead maybe defer the decision another month in the hope they'll 'catch up'. then they'll forget about it for a few more months. Dark patterns all over.
      - wccrawford 4y ago
        Incredibly evil. That's why I used up all my credits and then cancelled my account. I briefly flirted with "gift subscriptions" because I was still wanting new audio books a lot, but that has its own problems. So I gave up on them.
      - DesiLurker 4y ago
        thats why I raced to buy up a bunch of books with my points and then cancelled immediately (you can keep the books). its one dark pattern after another, good riddance.
      - yurishimo 4y ago
        If you sign up on iOS in app, you get to keep your credits after cancelling. One of the things Apple does right imo in regards to consumer protection.
      - shever73 4y ago
        It’s exceptionally evil! I had the same issue and couldn’t understand why I was losing credits I thought I had “bought”. This and other privacy-related issues (see my comment history) is why I won’t consciously use Amazon again.
      - matrix12 4y ago
        Hint: OpenAudible backup before you terminate.
      - buildbot 4y ago
        Hmm, that might be illegal in Washington State
      - abawany 4y ago
        This is why I hate Audible and have never been tempted by their many attempts at entangling me in with their endless 'trials'. By comparison, Downpour.com had an easy on/off function for the monthly fees and the credits remain active for up to a year, with a prior warning, for one to use even after canceling the monthly subscription. Edit: also like the fact that the audio books are drm-free/downloadable and I am not beholden to their app to listen to them.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - mkroman 4y ago
      Just contact customer support and ask if you can get a refund. I've done this a few times when I was just accumulating points with nothing I wanted to buy, and it's always been quick and easy.
meltedcapacitor 4y ago
Are these benefits not eroding? Pressure on subscription models comes from both the public getting herd immunity against the underlying dark pattern and competitors chasing a diminishing supply of people to trick as world + dog has adopted the tactic. In this particular case, with a privacy tailwind, it will be unsurprising if it ends up increasing their sales.
- ryanbrunner 4y ago
  I think saying subscriptions are a dark pattern is going a bit far. In the case where you're offering an ongoing service that requires a cost to service, a subscription model is completely appropriate and in the best interest of both the subscriber and the issuer. For sure there's some abuse of the model where you're selling something that should be a one-time item, but that's not the case here, and Mullvad is providing an ongoing service (and still billing by month / year / etc. for the service, just without automatic renewals).
  - 3wolf 4y ago
    Yeah, I'd say the term dark pattern only applies when services make it unnecessarily difficult to cancel your subscription. cough cough...NY Times
  - lolc 4y ago
    To me, a dark pattern is when the service doesn't announce in advance when the subscription is going to renew.
    - bcrosby95 4y ago
      These emails always annoy me. To each their own I guess.
  - wpietri 4y ago
    I'd be willing to say that subscriptions are a dark pattern when they don't automatically stop if you stop using them. A fundamental part of healthy business relationships is value for value. E.g., you give me money, I give you a sandwich, you take the sandwich, eat it, and are happy with it. If you keep paying me for sandwiches but I don't give them to you, that's not healthy. Ditto if I put them on the counter but you stop taking them. Personally, I think there should be a law that all service/software subscriptions auto-suspend after 30 days of non-use. Because right now there's a big incentive for businesses to get you to sign up for things they think you're not going to use, and to keep on charging you even though they know you're not using it.
ouid 4y ago
absolutely not. people are wary of signing up for new subscriptions, because cancellation is not clearly protected in most jurisdictions, and people are aware that they can forget to cancel. People dont forget to renew their world of warcraft membership because their game stops working if they do. if you use a VPN, you likely use it every day, and there will be no lost revenue.
zajio1am 4y ago
Disagree. If i have per-month subscription that does not have termination notice period, i could terminate it any time, next month effective. If i have to pre-pay service, while i can still pay on per-month basis, that is usually such inconvenience that i would rather pay per-year or longer. Considering privacy issues i assume that pre-paid account could not be cancelled and refunded earlier, i am implicitly forced to year-long contract with pay ahead.

If you're familiar with the sizeable benefits of the subscription model for a business you'll recognize this is a big deal.

yreg 4y ago

They still use a subscription model it's just a non-recurring one.

karaterobot 4y ago
Part of the advantage of the recurring subscription model is having predictable revenue every month due to it being recurring. And many businesses count on that "gym membership" effect, where people who don't use a service also don't take the time to cancel it for a while.
- disiplus 4y ago
  that's me and my audible subscription. i should cancel it, but before that i have to use the credits.
  - krallja 4y ago
    Holy cow, that’s evil. https://help.audible.com/s/article/do-i-keep-my-credits-if-i-cancel-my-audible-premium-plus-membership?language=en_US https://help.audible.com/s/article/do-i-keep-my-credits-if-i... Do I keep my credits if I cancel my Audible Premium Plus membership? No. If you end your Audible Premium Plus membership, your credits will be lost with your other membership benefits.
    - dfinninger 4y ago
      I wind up pausing my subscription when I get too many credits. It’s not a full cancellation, but I don’t have to pay.
      - DesiLurker 4y ago
        IIRC problem is the option of pausing subscriptions is well hidden & revealed only when you have fully made up your mind to cancel & drop all your credits. most folks would not do that instead maybe defer the decision another month in the hope they'll 'catch up'. then they'll forget about it for a few more months. Dark patterns all over.
    - wccrawford 4y ago
      Incredibly evil. That's why I used up all my credits and then cancelled my account. I briefly flirted with "gift subscriptions" because I was still wanting new audio books a lot, but that has its own problems. So I gave up on them.
    - DesiLurker 4y ago
      thats why I raced to buy up a bunch of books with my points and then cancelled immediately (you can keep the books). its one dark pattern after another, good riddance.
    - yurishimo 4y ago
      If you sign up on iOS in app, you get to keep your credits after cancelling. One of the things Apple does right imo in regards to consumer protection.
    - shever73 4y ago
      It’s exceptionally evil! I had the same issue and couldn’t understand why I was losing credits I thought I had “bought”. This and other privacy-related issues (see my comment history) is why I won’t consciously use Amazon again.
    - matrix12 4y ago
      Hint: OpenAudible backup before you terminate.
    - buildbot 4y ago
      Hmm, that might be illegal in Washington State
    - abawany 4y ago
      This is why I hate Audible and have never been tempted by their many attempts at entangling me in with their endless 'trials'. By comparison, Downpour.com had an easy on/off function for the monthly fees and the credits remain active for up to a year, with a prior warning, for one to use even after canceling the monthly subscription. Edit: also like the fact that the audio books are drm-free/downloadable and I am not beholden to their app to listen to them.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - mkroman 4y ago
    Just contact customer support and ask if you can get a refund. I've done this a few times when I was just accumulating points with nothing I wanted to buy, and it's always been quick and easy.

meltedcapacitor 4y ago

Are these benefits not eroding? Pressure on subscription models comes from both the public getting herd immunity against the underlying dark pattern and competitors chasing a diminishing supply of people to trick as world + dog has adopted the tactic. In this particular case, with a privacy tailwind, it will be unsurprising if it ends up increasing their sales.

ryanbrunner 4y ago
I think saying subscriptions are a dark pattern is going a bit far. In the case where you're offering an ongoing service that requires a cost to service, a subscription model is completely appropriate and in the best interest of both the subscriber and the issuer. For sure there's some abuse of the model where you're selling something that should be a one-time item, but that's not the case here, and Mullvad is providing an ongoing service (and still billing by month / year / etc. for the service, just without automatic renewals).
- 3wolf 4y ago
  Yeah, I'd say the term dark pattern only applies when services make it unnecessarily difficult to cancel your subscription. cough cough...NY Times
- lolc 4y ago
  To me, a dark pattern is when the service doesn't announce in advance when the subscription is going to renew.
  - bcrosby95 4y ago
    These emails always annoy me. To each their own I guess.
- wpietri 4y ago
  I'd be willing to say that subscriptions are a dark pattern when they don't automatically stop if you stop using them. A fundamental part of healthy business relationships is value for value. E.g., you give me money, I give you a sandwich, you take the sandwich, eat it, and are happy with it. If you keep paying me for sandwiches but I don't give them to you, that's not healthy. Ditto if I put them on the counter but you stop taking them. Personally, I think there should be a law that all service/software subscriptions auto-suspend after 30 days of non-use. Because right now there's a big incentive for businesses to get you to sign up for things they think you're not going to use, and to keep on charging you even though they know you're not using it.

ouid 4y ago

absolutely not. people are wary of signing up for new subscriptions, because cancellation is not clearly protected in most jurisdictions, and people are aware that they can forget to cancel. People dont forget to renew their world of warcraft membership because their game stops working if they do. if you use a VPN, you likely use it every day, and there will be no lost revenue.

zajio1am 4y ago

Disagree. If i have per-month subscription that does not have termination notice period, i could terminate it any time, next month effective. If i have to pre-pay service, while i can still pay on per-month basis, that is usually such inconvenience that i would rather pay per-year or longer. Considering privacy issues i assume that pre-paid account could not be cancelled and refunded earlier, i am implicitly forced to year-long contract with pay ahead.