2 ms·

This is wrong. You didn't read the linked resources. I just checked, and neither of the mouthwashes I use have Corsodyl as active or inactive ingredients. Als

by tbran 4y ago

This is wrong. You didn't read the linked resources. I just checked, and neither of the mouthwashes I use have Corsodyl as active or inactive ingredients. Also, uh, don't drink your mouthwash, spit it out. Since everything we do has tradeoffs, I'm okay with using an antiseptic that is spit then rinsed (per the routine) if I'm going to eat ice cream and bread.

throwawash 4y ago
>Also, uh, don't drink your mouthwash, spit it out. doesn't cut it for me. someone I know who doesn't smoke or drink and was sub-40 years old got diagnosed with tongue cancer. Cancer specialists were miffed at the cause. The only thing that stood out: he was a meticulous user of mouthwash 3x a day since he was a teenager.
- jghn 4y ago
  Sometimes people just get unlucky and there's not some direct causal factor. Yes, it could have been the mouthwash. It also could have been a combination of their germline genome having some unfortunate mutations and/or a series of unlucky somatic mutations.
  - throwawash 4y ago
    If mouthwash has harmful ingredients keeping it in your mouth for a prolonged duration and spitting it out instead of drinking it will not solve your problems, contrary to the quoted line. If an patient who is an outlier exhibits an extreme habit related to the affected cancerous organ, it seems advisable to take note even if it is possible there are undiscovered more serious contributing factors.
    - mrmuagi 4y ago
      I mean, you are making a jump from correlation to causation. There is a reason science does not use anecdotes and relies on statistics, p values, and, confidence intervals. That being said, did you happen to know what ingredients were in play, since he was using the same product for ~>20 years it sounds like, maybe the carcinogen landscape was much more under researched that long ago? I mean leaded gas was still sold in the US 'til 96 -- even though theres just so much evidence of it being harmful to the nth degree.
      - throwawash 4y ago
        And why pray tell, should I disregard cancer specialists at Sloan Kettering telling this guy's entire family not to use mouthwash? Many available common mouthwash still contain alcohol. Alcohol's causal effect on oral cancer is rarely disputed in medical circles. If ample clinical studies are absent, science does in fact rely on reason time to time in the interim. [0] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6982979/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6982979/
        mrmuagi 4y ago
        Even more reason not to use alcohol mouthwash, interesting. I did not previously use it just for the fact it dries your mouth and that exacerbates bad breath. >And why pray tell, should I disregard cancer specialist Not doing such a thing, your words were directly "someone I know who doesn't smoke or drink and was sub-40 years old got diagnosed with tongue cancer." -- which is different from your words here where you link a study -- and I appreciate you for doing.
JoshTko 4y ago
An intuitive analogy is your gut is like a rainforest. It's hard for any one species to become overly dominant since it's a very dynamic system with many species that have optimized to even specific tree species. However in extreme environments like the Arctic there are only a handful of species as the environment is unfriendly to all. Antibiotic is akin to burning down a rainforest which does get rid of a few bad species, but also creates all the other species that keep the bad species in check. Post fire if a bad species is the first to take hold the entire area is fucked. Your mouth has it's own floura. Sure you can blast everything away but eventually you'll be far more securable to some alcohol (or whatever antiseptic) resistant bad bug and you will get very sick for a very long time.

by tbran 4y ago

throwawash 4y ago

>Also, uh, don't drink your mouthwash, spit it out. doesn't cut it for me. someone I know who doesn't smoke or drink and was sub-40 years old got diagnosed with tongue cancer. Cancer specialists were miffed at the cause. The only thing that stood out: he was a meticulous user of mouthwash 3x a day since he was a teenager.

jghn 4y ago
Sometimes people just get unlucky and there's not some direct causal factor. Yes, it could have been the mouthwash. It also could have been a combination of their germline genome having some unfortunate mutations and/or a series of unlucky somatic mutations.
- throwawash 4y ago
  If mouthwash has harmful ingredients keeping it in your mouth for a prolonged duration and spitting it out instead of drinking it will not solve your problems, contrary to the quoted line. If an patient who is an outlier exhibits an extreme habit related to the affected cancerous organ, it seems advisable to take note even if it is possible there are undiscovered more serious contributing factors.
  - mrmuagi 4y ago
    I mean, you are making a jump from correlation to causation. There is a reason science does not use anecdotes and relies on statistics, p values, and, confidence intervals. That being said, did you happen to know what ingredients were in play, since he was using the same product for ~>20 years it sounds like, maybe the carcinogen landscape was much more under researched that long ago? I mean leaded gas was still sold in the US 'til 96 -- even though theres just so much evidence of it being harmful to the nth degree.
    - throwawash 4y ago
      And why pray tell, should I disregard cancer specialists at Sloan Kettering telling this guy's entire family not to use mouthwash? Many available common mouthwash still contain alcohol. Alcohol's causal effect on oral cancer is rarely disputed in medical circles. If ample clinical studies are absent, science does in fact rely on reason time to time in the interim. [0] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6982979/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6982979/
      - mrmuagi 4y ago
        Even more reason not to use alcohol mouthwash, interesting. I did not previously use it just for the fact it dries your mouth and that exacerbates bad breath. >And why pray tell, should I disregard cancer specialist Not doing such a thing, your words were directly "someone I know who doesn't smoke or drink and was sub-40 years old got diagnosed with tongue cancer." -- which is different from your words here where you link a study -- and I appreciate you for doing.

JoshTko 4y ago

An intuitive analogy is your gut is like a rainforest. It's hard for any one species to become overly dominant since it's a very dynamic system with many species that have optimized to even specific tree species. However in extreme environments like the Arctic there are only a handful of species as the environment is unfriendly to all. Antibiotic is akin to burning down a rainforest which does get rid of a few bad species, but also creates all the other species that keep the bad species in check. Post fire if a bad species is the first to take hold the entire area is fucked. Your mouth has it's own floura. Sure you can blast everything away but eventually you'll be far more securable to some alcohol (or whatever antiseptic) resistant bad bug and you will get very sick for a very long time.