8 ms·

As a quant, you should aim for management, not software development. If you still want to code, then pick a small (but funded) company where you can be CTO and

by cs137 4y ago

As a quant, you should aim for management, not software development. If you still want to code, then pick a small (but funded) company where you can be CTO and still write software. I'm only slightly older than you. You do not want a Jira job. It will burn you out. It's not the same as indie development... you will probably work on tickets, adding features no one really cares about or fixing bugs that you didn't create. It's awful. If you were a real quant, you can probably use your CV to get something a lot better.

uxcolumbo 4y ago
Why is this being down voted? It's a valid perspective. You don't want to end up in a corporate machine working on Jiras after Jiras, which might make you hate your job.
- eatonphil 4y ago
  I downvoted it because 1) it's too broad of a generalization (i.e. not my experience at Oracle, for example) and 2) OP didn't ask if they'd like a different job they asked if they could get a different job.
- tomcam 4y ago
rob74 4y ago
> you will probably work on tickets, adding features no one really cares about or fixing bugs that you didn't create. It's awful. If you were a real quant, you can probably use your CV to get something a lot better. Now I'm depressed :( I get what you're writing, but depending on the project, the people you work with etc., even a "Jira job" can still be fulfilling. Also, as a manager, if you have this "I don't understand how you can do this awful job" attitude towards the developers you work with, I'm not sure if that's really healthy for you either...
- kayodelycaon 4y ago
  Counterpoint: I'm quite happy with a "Jira job" because it pays well, has definable "wins" in the closing of tickets, and work-life balance is actually a thing. I'm always learning new things about various industries. Commercial insurance was particularly fun. All kinds of interesting edge-cases. Didn't feel sleazy. Paid-travel to conventions. I managed to maneuver myself into a secondary role as technical expert and got to work with customers a few times. All this is engaging to me and outside of work, I'm free to do what I find fulfilling.
  - tomcam 4y ago
    Love your attitude. That’s a great way to create your job.
PheonixPharts 4y ago
I wouldn't recommend anyone interested in technical work go the path of management. A CTO at even a small software company that is writing code is doing their job wrong if they aren't quickly evolving into a role where they don't even touch code. I've been in multiple management roles at multiple places and, with one exception, the role is much more about managing expectations of leadership and playing political games to make sure your team survives. ICs have some dream that management is about being a technical leader and guiding IC work, but, in practice, this is a very tiny part of the role. The only exception to this I've seen is managers that are grown internally. But if you're coming from outside to lead a team, it's going to be upper management that hires you and upper management that you end up doing most of your work for. I've known a surprisingly large number of ex-finance people that got "Jira jobs" and they quite enjoy it. Most people leaving finance have very large savings stored so they have a fair bit of extra comfort in knowing that if the job ever starts to really suck, they can just walk out the door. On top of that mindlessly solving problems and getting to check out with only 3-5 hours of work is exactly what many of them want.
- calvinmorrison 4y ago
  > A CTO at even a small software company that is writing code is doing their job wrong if they aren't quickly evolving into a role where they don't even touch code. hard disagree here. When I worked at Fastmail (less than 50 people), our entire leadership was technical. Even our least technical leadership person (CFO?) was more proficient than most junior developers. It's a beautiful thing, because business goals get aligned with programming goals, on a long lasting technical project that is very important. No more jostling over what some person with product vision wants versus what needs to happen, refactoring, etc. I actually think the biggest challenge for the leadership team at fastmail is the leadership part, not the programming part. A bunch of really really smart tenured developers suddenly navigating how to be managers, CEO, CTO, etc, is much more challenging than writing some fixes for a new Apple Calendar quirks. It was cool to see growth from the leadership who took the part of 'ok I am a real C level at a company with a growing headcount how do I do this right the first time?' I think, having a leadership that still keeps their hands in the dirt is a good thing. Plus they happened to all be the best programmers we had. Leapyears better than anyone else I think.
branda22 4y ago
I'm currently stuck in a "Jira Job" just fixing bugs all day and it's extremely depressing but I've been around this industry long enough to know that not all jobs are like this. There are plenty of companies doing greenfield work, most of them do want someone with experience though unless you are willing to take a pay cut and start as junior or mid.
dominotw 4y ago
> company where you can be CTO and still write software. why would any company give CTO coding role to someone who has no experience in software.
- Clubber 4y ago
  >why would any company give CTO coding role to someone who has no experience in software. Good question, but in my experience, it's more the norm than the exception at larger non-tech centric companies. CTO has basically an administrative role there.
  - tiborsaas 4y ago
    That's very sad I'd true, I can't imagine a CTO who can't code.
dj_mc_merlin 4y ago
Your job becomes a Jira job when you're not good enough at making/choosing your own work. If you have enough autonomy you can just pick up something you want to improve (.. or just play with) and do that for a while. When it comes time to divide topics or choose what to focus on, make conscious decisions and you can often secure the most interesting work for yourself. Keep in mind that the work you do at the beginning might very well define the role and kind of work people will give you. This can be a blessing or a curse. If you want greater autonomy, work on hard topics. Not only can you fail more (it's hard after all, right?), but once you deliver a couple times on a hard topic others had trouble with you are given a lot more leeway to improvise. Your only enemy becomes the support requests then.. What I'm trying to say is if one is stuck with a Jira job, they're not motivated enough to convince others they're worth more. Disclaimer: some jobs give you no say in this and it's near impossible to move out of your little painted corner. Just don't work there.
aoshifo 4y ago
> You do not want a Jira job. It will burn you out. Do you know the OP? Do you know what they want and like? I doubt it! While this might be true for you, I do enjoy working my "Jira job" at 38. > If you were a real quant, you can probably use your CV to get something a lot better. Who makes you the judge of what is better for this person?!
- runjake 4y ago
  This post asked for advice, which is what this commenter is providing.
Clubber 4y ago
>Jira job This is my first time hearing that term and I think it's great. Poor Jira though, they get thrown into what is essentially the hell that was created by scrum.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
wittycardio 4y ago
There's plenty of software jobs that aren't jira jobs. Avoid all web development, look for something in infrastructure or new technology. That's where the interesting work lies

by cs137 4y ago

uxcolumbo 4y ago

Why is this being down voted? It's a valid perspective. You don't want to end up in a corporate machine working on Jiras after Jiras, which might make you hate your job.

eatonphil 4y ago
I downvoted it because 1) it's too broad of a generalization (i.e. not my experience at Oracle, for example) and 2) OP didn't ask if they'd like a different job they asked if they could get a different job.
tomcam 4y ago

rob74 4y ago

> you will probably work on tickets, adding features no one really cares about or fixing bugs that you didn't create. It's awful. If you were a real quant, you can probably use your CV to get something a lot better. Now I'm depressed :( I get what you're writing, but depending on the project, the people you work with etc., even a "Jira job" can still be fulfilling. Also, as a manager, if you have this "I don't understand how you can do this awful job" attitude towards the developers you work with, I'm not sure if that's really healthy for you either...

kayodelycaon 4y ago
Counterpoint: I'm quite happy with a "Jira job" because it pays well, has definable "wins" in the closing of tickets, and work-life balance is actually a thing. I'm always learning new things about various industries. Commercial insurance was particularly fun. All kinds of interesting edge-cases. Didn't feel sleazy. Paid-travel to conventions. I managed to maneuver myself into a secondary role as technical expert and got to work with customers a few times. All this is engaging to me and outside of work, I'm free to do what I find fulfilling.
- tomcam 4y ago
  Love your attitude. That’s a great way to create your job.

PheonixPharts 4y ago

I wouldn't recommend anyone interested in technical work go the path of management. A CTO at even a small software company that is writing code is doing their job wrong if they aren't quickly evolving into a role where they don't even touch code. I've been in multiple management roles at multiple places and, with one exception, the role is much more about managing expectations of leadership and playing political games to make sure your team survives. ICs have some dream that management is about being a technical leader and guiding IC work, but, in practice, this is a very tiny part of the role. The only exception to this I've seen is managers that are grown internally. But if you're coming from outside to lead a team, it's going to be upper management that hires you and upper management that you end up doing most of your work for. I've known a surprisingly large number of ex-finance people that got "Jira jobs" and they quite enjoy it. Most people leaving finance have very large savings stored so they have a fair bit of extra comfort in knowing that if the job ever starts to really suck, they can just walk out the door. On top of that mindlessly solving problems and getting to check out with only 3-5 hours of work is exactly what many of them want.

calvinmorrison 4y ago
> A CTO at even a small software company that is writing code is doing their job wrong if they aren't quickly evolving into a role where they don't even touch code. hard disagree here. When I worked at Fastmail (less than 50 people), our entire leadership was technical. Even our least technical leadership person (CFO?) was more proficient than most junior developers. It's a beautiful thing, because business goals get aligned with programming goals, on a long lasting technical project that is very important. No more jostling over what some person with product vision wants versus what needs to happen, refactoring, etc. I actually think the biggest challenge for the leadership team at fastmail is the leadership part, not the programming part. A bunch of really really smart tenured developers suddenly navigating how to be managers, CEO, CTO, etc, is much more challenging than writing some fixes for a new Apple Calendar quirks. It was cool to see growth from the leadership who took the part of 'ok I am a real C level at a company with a growing headcount how do I do this right the first time?' I think, having a leadership that still keeps their hands in the dirt is a good thing. Plus they happened to all be the best programmers we had. Leapyears better than anyone else I think.

branda22 4y ago

I'm currently stuck in a "Jira Job" just fixing bugs all day and it's extremely depressing but I've been around this industry long enough to know that not all jobs are like this. There are plenty of companies doing greenfield work, most of them do want someone with experience though unless you are willing to take a pay cut and start as junior or mid.

dominotw 4y ago

> company where you can be CTO and still write software. why would any company give CTO coding role to someone who has no experience in software.

Clubber 4y ago
>why would any company give CTO coding role to someone who has no experience in software. Good question, but in my experience, it's more the norm than the exception at larger non-tech centric companies. CTO has basically an administrative role there.
- tiborsaas 4y ago
  That's very sad I'd true, I can't imagine a CTO who can't code.

dj_mc_merlin 4y ago

Your job becomes a Jira job when you're not good enough at making/choosing your own work. If you have enough autonomy you can just pick up something you want to improve (.. or just play with) and do that for a while. When it comes time to divide topics or choose what to focus on, make conscious decisions and you can often secure the most interesting work for yourself. Keep in mind that the work you do at the beginning might very well define the role and kind of work people will give you. This can be a blessing or a curse. If you want greater autonomy, work on hard topics. Not only can you fail more (it's hard after all, right?), but once you deliver a couple times on a hard topic others had trouble with you are given a lot more leeway to improvise. Your only enemy becomes the support requests then.. What I'm trying to say is if one is stuck with a Jira job, they're not motivated enough to convince others they're worth more. Disclaimer: some jobs give you no say in this and it's near impossible to move out of your little painted corner. Just don't work there.

aoshifo 4y ago

> You do not want a Jira job. It will burn you out. Do you know the OP? Do you know what they want and like? I doubt it! While this might be true for you, I do enjoy working my "Jira job" at 38. > If you were a real quant, you can probably use your CV to get something a lot better. Who makes you the judge of what is better for this person?!

runjake 4y ago
This post asked for advice, which is what this commenter is providing.

Clubber 4y ago

>Jira job This is my first time hearing that term and I think it's great. Poor Jira though, they get thrown into what is essentially the hell that was created by scrum.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

wittycardio 4y ago

There's plenty of software jobs that aren't jira jobs. Avoid all web development, look for something in infrastructure or new technology. That's where the interesting work lies