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Just by curiosity, is there any particular reason why the math and physics teacher job does not make you happy? In my opinion, it is a great work very valuable

Just by curiosity, is there any particular reason why the math and physics teacher job does not make you happy? In my opinion, it is a great work very valuable for the society, and that allows to pass your passion for science to children (those who are receptive). It can even be a bridge to some academic career.

frankbreetz 4y ago
Teachers don't make a lot of money. Especially compared to Quants and software engineers.
- randomdata 4y ago
  You are right that selling teaching services on the open market doesn't pay very well, being something considered not very valuable. However, selling teaching services to the public sector, where price is determined by what a group thinks feels right rather than demonstrated value, can be quite lucrative and on par with the typical software engineering job. It is true that software engineers have more moonshot opportunities. You will find more software engineers raking in millions of dollars per year than you will teachers. But only a scant few engineers end up in that position. The vast majority of software engineers will land around the same range teachers in the public sector will (with some regional variability, I'm sure).
  - claytonjy 4y ago
    In America? I know a handful of teachers in their early-mid 30s, all public sector (though none in a major metropolis like NYC or SF) and I don't think any of them make what a CS major from a mediocre state school can expect in a first job at a mediocre software company. Where in America can a teacher make 100k+ with <5 YoE?
  - gamechangr 4y ago
    > "the vast amount of software engineers will land around the same range teachers in the public sector will" That just can't be true. No disrespect meant, but I'm not sure if you are under rating what the vast amount of software engineers make or over rating what teachers make. Would you care to clarify with annual take home estimates for both? Maybe some college professors make what engineers make. That could be true. That is very likely.
    - randomdata 4y ago
      The average teacher salary according to the Ministry of Education is $99,000 (total comp). They are contracted for 196 work days; 6.5 hours per day, equalling a rate of $78 per hour. Developer salaries are harder to come by, not being officially published in a cohesive form, but levels.fyi suggests a median income of $147,000 (total comp). In my opinion, levels.fyi skews towards big tech, ignoring the little mom and pops that pay peanuts. Other sources suggest the average is closer to $80-90k, depending on who you ask. In the interest of fairness, I'm going to pick the largest number I can find. Again, not having officially published data, contractual terms are hard to establish, but I think it is reasonable to assume that most developer jobs will expect somewhere around 2000 hours per year – your typical 40 hour work week. In my experience, this is the norm. While I see a growing number of places that allow fewer hours, they come with a commensurate cut in pay. This puts the median developer at $73 per hour. It is recognized that median and average are not the same, but given the distribution of teacher salaries, median and average should be close to equivalent. For all intents and purposes I think we can consider them to be equivalent in this case. It is not like there is a teacher on the payroll making millions to skew the numbers or something. The pay bands are known. So, we're in the same ballpark. Within a few dollars of each other. But, as before, I won't be surprised if there is variance across locations. Pay scales can differ significantly from one place to another.
      - gamechangr 4y ago
        The teachers at $99,000 must include a lot of loan repayment or something. That seems high from my view point. I pulled the whole career based on what the US government discloses. Note this is a based on salary. I would assume delelopers have better total compensation, but there are loan repayment and other things that might affect a teacher. Here is the US salary guideline : Teacher salary: $61,820 per year based on an estimated 998,800 jobs reported on taxes. https://www.bls.gov/ooh/education-training-and-library/high-school-teachers.htm https://www.bls.gov/ooh/education-training-and-library/high-... Software Developers : Salary $110,000 based on an estimated 1,847,900 jobs reported on taxes https://www.bls.gov/ooh/computer-and-information-technology/software-developers.htm https://www.bls.gov/ooh/computer-and-information-technology/...
JamesSwift 4y ago
Assuming the US, its a shit show right now for teachers. Burnout is hitting hard and only getting worse, as the replacement rate is no-where near keeping up. Several people in my circle are now either former teachers in new careers, or retired teachers (who were not really planning on retiring when they did).
noneeeed 4y ago
(Not the parent) I think that I would be quite good as a teacher, and would enjoy the act of teaching motivated and interested student. However I have enough friends/relatives who are working "capital-T" Teachers to know that actually working in a school is a completely different prospect. Between poor management, ever-changing demands/requirements from politicians/government and terrible parents the actual job of teaching can be a lot less rewarding that people might think. It's kind of like how some people really love coding, and like playing games so they think "I'll become a games developer and I'll love my job" only to be crushed by the actual process of games development in a sweatshop games company. Or the difference between loving to draw and being a professional designer churning out bullshit for some corporate client.
ptero 4y ago
At least in the US, getting a permanent (union) position is super hard and takes years as a sub / on contract. On success (which is not guaranteed), it is seniority-based and starting at 38 you are at a pretty big disadvantage. While you are on contract, you get crappy assignments that no one else wants: substituting for a semester, classes with difficult kids, etc. States differ, but I think this is a common picture for many. If money is not particularly important teaching at a community college is much more pleasant. Competition is pretty low (because the pay is low), but you get respect and a lot of freedom to teach what and how you like. I know a few folks who semi-retired after a high paying career into a part-time community college teaching and really liked it.

frankbreetz 4y ago

Teachers don't make a lot of money. Especially compared to Quants and software engineers.

randomdata 4y ago
You are right that selling teaching services on the open market doesn't pay very well, being something considered not very valuable. However, selling teaching services to the public sector, where price is determined by what a group thinks feels right rather than demonstrated value, can be quite lucrative and on par with the typical software engineering job. It is true that software engineers have more moonshot opportunities. You will find more software engineers raking in millions of dollars per year than you will teachers. But only a scant few engineers end up in that position. The vast majority of software engineers will land around the same range teachers in the public sector will (with some regional variability, I'm sure).
- claytonjy 4y ago
  In America? I know a handful of teachers in their early-mid 30s, all public sector (though none in a major metropolis like NYC or SF) and I don't think any of them make what a CS major from a mediocre state school can expect in a first job at a mediocre software company. Where in America can a teacher make 100k+ with <5 YoE?
- gamechangr 4y ago
  > "the vast amount of software engineers will land around the same range teachers in the public sector will" That just can't be true. No disrespect meant, but I'm not sure if you are under rating what the vast amount of software engineers make or over rating what teachers make. Would you care to clarify with annual take home estimates for both? Maybe some college professors make what engineers make. That could be true. That is very likely.
  - randomdata 4y ago
    The average teacher salary according to the Ministry of Education is $99,000 (total comp). They are contracted for 196 work days; 6.5 hours per day, equalling a rate of $78 per hour. Developer salaries are harder to come by, not being officially published in a cohesive form, but levels.fyi suggests a median income of $147,000 (total comp). In my opinion, levels.fyi skews towards big tech, ignoring the little mom and pops that pay peanuts. Other sources suggest the average is closer to $80-90k, depending on who you ask. In the interest of fairness, I'm going to pick the largest number I can find. Again, not having officially published data, contractual terms are hard to establish, but I think it is reasonable to assume that most developer jobs will expect somewhere around 2000 hours per year – your typical 40 hour work week. In my experience, this is the norm. While I see a growing number of places that allow fewer hours, they come with a commensurate cut in pay. This puts the median developer at $73 per hour. It is recognized that median and average are not the same, but given the distribution of teacher salaries, median and average should be close to equivalent. For all intents and purposes I think we can consider them to be equivalent in this case. It is not like there is a teacher on the payroll making millions to skew the numbers or something. The pay bands are known. So, we're in the same ballpark. Within a few dollars of each other. But, as before, I won't be surprised if there is variance across locations. Pay scales can differ significantly from one place to another.
    - gamechangr 4y ago
      The teachers at $99,000 must include a lot of loan repayment or something. That seems high from my view point. I pulled the whole career based on what the US government discloses. Note this is a based on salary. I would assume delelopers have better total compensation, but there are loan repayment and other things that might affect a teacher. Here is the US salary guideline : Teacher salary: $61,820 per year based on an estimated 998,800 jobs reported on taxes. https://www.bls.gov/ooh/education-training-and-library/high-school-teachers.htm https://www.bls.gov/ooh/education-training-and-library/high-... Software Developers : Salary $110,000 based on an estimated 1,847,900 jobs reported on taxes https://www.bls.gov/ooh/computer-and-information-technology/software-developers.htm https://www.bls.gov/ooh/computer-and-information-technology/...

JamesSwift 4y ago

Assuming the US, its a shit show right now for teachers. Burnout is hitting hard and only getting worse, as the replacement rate is no-where near keeping up. Several people in my circle are now either former teachers in new careers, or retired teachers (who were not really planning on retiring when they did).

noneeeed 4y ago

(Not the parent) I think that I would be quite good as a teacher, and would enjoy the act of teaching motivated and interested student. However I have enough friends/relatives who are working "capital-T" Teachers to know that actually working in a school is a completely different prospect. Between poor management, ever-changing demands/requirements from politicians/government and terrible parents the actual job of teaching can be a lot less rewarding that people might think. It's kind of like how some people really love coding, and like playing games so they think "I'll become a games developer and I'll love my job" only to be crushed by the actual process of games development in a sweatshop games company. Or the difference between loving to draw and being a professional designer churning out bullshit for some corporate client.

ptero 4y ago

At least in the US, getting a permanent (union) position is super hard and takes years as a sub / on contract. On success (which is not guaranteed), it is seniority-based and starting at 38 you are at a pretty big disadvantage. While you are on contract, you get crappy assignments that no one else wants: substituting for a semester, classes with difficult kids, etc. States differ, but I think this is a common picture for many. If money is not particularly important teaching at a community college is much more pleasant. Competition is pretty low (because the pay is low), but you get respect and a lot of freedom to teach what and how you like. I know a few folks who semi-retired after a high paying career into a part-time community college teaching and really liked it.