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Man it costs a lot of money to maintain this, but Switzerland will continue to invest heavily into rail service, backed by the public: https://www.bav.admin.ch/

Man it costs a lot of money to maintain this, but Switzerland will continue to invest heavily into rail service, backed by the public: https://www.bav.admin.ch/bav/en/home/modes-of-transport/railways/rail-infrastructure/expansion-programmes/further-expansion-programmes.html https://www.bav.admin.ch/bav/en/home/modes-of-transport/rail... One project I find pretty cool is the 4 track expansion via tunnel under and through an existing village: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vi2rmEl8ULA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vi2rmEl8ULA

runeks 4y ago
> Man it costs a lot of money to maintain this, but Switzerland will continue to invest heavily into rail service, backed by the public: https://www.bav.admin.ch/bav/en/home/modes-of-transport/rail https://www.bav.admin.ch/bav/en/home/modes-of-transport/rail... Isn’t it paid for through ticket fees? Or is it subsidized by the state?
- dom9301k 4y ago
  Usually the ticket fee are very, very small part of it. The heavy weight is public founding, taxes. I gladly play my tax here in Swiz because the system works. There are "big" delays ever here, yesterday something like 30 minutes, but is like 1 time out of 100.
- mellavora 4y ago
  > Or is it subsidized by the state? "subsidized", yes, but like any other investment the idea is that it will create positive economic value across the whole country and across a long time horizon, in a way that the tickets cannot recapture (for example, every person on the train is one less person on the road -- less cars is a benefit for the other drivers and reduces road wear/maintenance cost and reduces accidents/health-care costs). Thus perfect for a government project. Create vast value and the recapture mechanism is taxes. Luxembourg went to totally free public transportation. Bus, train, light rail. Total game-changer. More countries should do this.
  - erichocean 4y ago
    > Luxembourg went to totally free public transportation. Bus, train, light rail. Total game-changer. More countries should do this. It's a "country" with 630K relatively wealthy, educated, trustworthy people. You can do a lot of things if your "country" meets that criteria. Few do.
- throw0101a 4y ago
  > Isn’t it paid for through ticket fees? Or is it subsidized by the state? You can subsidize public transit/rail or you can subsidize highways. Which has a better 'ROI' when high oil prices come along? :)
- misja111 4y ago
  The Swiss rail company, SBB, is owned by the state. In 2021 it made a loss of 325 million CHF, which is about 3.3% of its total turnover. So it's paid mostly through ticket fees and for a small part by the state.
  - izacus 4y ago
    Quoting coronavirus pandemic numbers in a country where people are ordered to stay at home is a pretty dishonest argument. SBB made profit it 2019 for example.
  - Leherenn 4y ago
    I think that's incorrect, public funding is included in revenues. In 2021, out of ~10B revenues, 4B came from state aid. In terms of operating income, traffic revenues are roughly equal to public sector funding. See https://reporting.sbb.ch/en/finance?highlighted=8e222679f50e32c11a71983b56261875&years=0,1,5,6,7&scroll=1162.1817626953125 https://reporting.sbb.ch/en/finance?highlighted=8e222679f50e...
  - uoaei 4y ago
    Define "loss" here. As far as I can tell, the Swiss franc is a sovereign fiat currency which lost any association to a gold standard by means of public referendum. The "cost" is effectively zero as it is part of the general economy available to the nation-state of Switzerland, and fits into the larger monetary and fiscal policy of the country. I have never considered the "cost" of a government service to be representative of anything unless an analysis of social benefits is likewise included. For instance the entire discourse around the USPS during the last US presidential election. Clearly, the train system is net-profitable for the country or they would shut it down, so calling it a "loss" seems inaccurate.
- mrep 4y ago
  You're looking for the Farebox recovery ratio [0]. Japan and honk kong: Mostly yes. Europe: Mostly no but at least a good portion of it is for most. US: Not even close. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farebox_recovery_ratio https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farebox_recovery_ratio
  - ISL 4y ago
    Except Amtrak, which on that page is listed at 95%. Why are the US regional transit ratios so low? They're taking in real money, yet the costs are 4-5x the revenue.
    - bobthepanda 4y ago
      Theres a couple things wrong with regional transit in the US * it's rarely the fastest way to get to your destination, wherever it may be, so doesn't attract passengers * to build on the above points, the suburbanization of jobs in recent decades has reduced the ability of transit to compete, since transit mostly performs best heading quickly into congested city centers; suburbs are also diffuse, which make them hard to serve with frequent transit * labor productivity in US transit is really low. as a general example, in the US most commuter rail systems still check individual tickets on every journey, which is very labor intensive. EU systems tend to use proof-of-payment, which basically means most of the time you're on the honor system, but if a roving inspector catches you without a ticket you'll get charged a punitive fine worth several months of fares. transit unions are probably one of the few US unions with teeth left, and they fight anything perceived as cutting jobs. * US systems charge flat rates as a kind of social policy for the poor, which is good for them but bad for the balance sheet one thing to note is that pretty much all the North American agencies on the list, unlike most of the Asian and European ones also on the list, integrate bus operations, and bus operations pretty much never make money due to the lower passengers per driver and high fuel costs.
    - treis 4y ago
      That number is wrong. For 2021 Amtrak received 4.7 billion in Federal money while their revenue was 2.1 billion.

runeks 4y ago

> Man it costs a lot of money to maintain this, but Switzerland will continue to invest heavily into rail service, backed by the public: https://www.bav.admin.ch/bav/en/home/modes-of-transport/rail https://www.bav.admin.ch/bav/en/home/modes-of-transport/rail... Isn’t it paid for through ticket fees? Or is it subsidized by the state?

dom9301k 4y ago
Usually the ticket fee are very, very small part of it. The heavy weight is public founding, taxes. I gladly play my tax here in Swiz because the system works. There are "big" delays ever here, yesterday something like 30 minutes, but is like 1 time out of 100.
mellavora 4y ago
> Or is it subsidized by the state? "subsidized", yes, but like any other investment the idea is that it will create positive economic value across the whole country and across a long time horizon, in a way that the tickets cannot recapture (for example, every person on the train is one less person on the road -- less cars is a benefit for the other drivers and reduces road wear/maintenance cost and reduces accidents/health-care costs). Thus perfect for a government project. Create vast value and the recapture mechanism is taxes. Luxembourg went to totally free public transportation. Bus, train, light rail. Total game-changer. More countries should do this.
- erichocean 4y ago
  > Luxembourg went to totally free public transportation. Bus, train, light rail. Total game-changer. More countries should do this. It's a "country" with 630K relatively wealthy, educated, trustworthy people. You can do a lot of things if your "country" meets that criteria. Few do.
throw0101a 4y ago
> Isn’t it paid for through ticket fees? Or is it subsidized by the state? You can subsidize public transit/rail or you can subsidize highways. Which has a better 'ROI' when high oil prices come along? :)
misja111 4y ago
The Swiss rail company, SBB, is owned by the state. In 2021 it made a loss of 325 million CHF, which is about 3.3% of its total turnover. So it's paid mostly through ticket fees and for a small part by the state.
- izacus 4y ago
  Quoting coronavirus pandemic numbers in a country where people are ordered to stay at home is a pretty dishonest argument. SBB made profit it 2019 for example.
- Leherenn 4y ago
  I think that's incorrect, public funding is included in revenues. In 2021, out of ~10B revenues, 4B came from state aid. In terms of operating income, traffic revenues are roughly equal to public sector funding. See https://reporting.sbb.ch/en/finance?highlighted=8e222679f50e32c11a71983b56261875&years=0,1,5,6,7&scroll=1162.1817626953125 https://reporting.sbb.ch/en/finance?highlighted=8e222679f50e...
- uoaei 4y ago
  Define "loss" here. As far as I can tell, the Swiss franc is a sovereign fiat currency which lost any association to a gold standard by means of public referendum. The "cost" is effectively zero as it is part of the general economy available to the nation-state of Switzerland, and fits into the larger monetary and fiscal policy of the country. I have never considered the "cost" of a government service to be representative of anything unless an analysis of social benefits is likewise included. For instance the entire discourse around the USPS during the last US presidential election. Clearly, the train system is net-profitable for the country or they would shut it down, so calling it a "loss" seems inaccurate.
mrep 4y ago
You're looking for the Farebox recovery ratio [0]. Japan and honk kong: Mostly yes. Europe: Mostly no but at least a good portion of it is for most. US: Not even close. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farebox_recovery_ratio https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farebox_recovery_ratio
- ISL 4y ago
  Except Amtrak, which on that page is listed at 95%. Why are the US regional transit ratios so low? They're taking in real money, yet the costs are 4-5x the revenue.
  - bobthepanda 4y ago
    Theres a couple things wrong with regional transit in the US * it's rarely the fastest way to get to your destination, wherever it may be, so doesn't attract passengers * to build on the above points, the suburbanization of jobs in recent decades has reduced the ability of transit to compete, since transit mostly performs best heading quickly into congested city centers; suburbs are also diffuse, which make them hard to serve with frequent transit * labor productivity in US transit is really low. as a general example, in the US most commuter rail systems still check individual tickets on every journey, which is very labor intensive. EU systems tend to use proof-of-payment, which basically means most of the time you're on the honor system, but if a roving inspector catches you without a ticket you'll get charged a punitive fine worth several months of fares. transit unions are probably one of the few US unions with teeth left, and they fight anything perceived as cutting jobs. * US systems charge flat rates as a kind of social policy for the poor, which is good for them but bad for the balance sheet one thing to note is that pretty much all the North American agencies on the list, unlike most of the Asian and European ones also on the list, integrate bus operations, and bus operations pretty much never make money due to the lower passengers per driver and high fuel costs.
  - treis 4y ago
    That number is wrong. For 2021 Amtrak received 4.7 billion in Federal money while their revenue was 2.1 billion.