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Yes, you should be able to install any app you want, there should be many app stores, and the 30% cut should be more like 3%.

ben_w 4y ago
I think it’s possible to make other App Stores work, but they need to be regulated. Some of the things which 3rd party developers complain about Apple requiring are basically "comply with GDPR and no you can’t spam popups to try and bore people into assenting that’s not even allowed by GDPR". Without Apple gatekeeping, I think dark patterns would be the first thing to go wrong. The "no adult content" rule seems very weird given that web browsers exist, even though I can understand why they would want to project a “family friendly” corporate image. That said, I am aware that my Overton window isn’t going to match America: I live in Berlin, and the spinning billboards here sometimes put erotic massage between family dentists and car repairs. But such things varying by county is still a good reason to have multiple stores with different rules, not just multiple availability zones for the same store. The encryption rules… well, that’s a USA export requirement, even when neither the developer nor any of the end users is in America, and while I can easily see why the US wants to require it, that’s not going to be acceptable to other governments in the long term. I can easily believe that the EU would demand an EU App Store that has an equivalent requirement but reporting to the EU instead of to the USA, and so on. That said, the fees structure is likely to be massively complicated by all this. The payment processing fee may be 3% (last time I looked was when Kagi was a payment processor and not a search engine), but the 15/30% that Apple (and on Android, that Google takes even though Android does allow other app stores) charges, also covers free use of iCloud databases, makes Xcode a free download, and likely helps pay for the development of the iOS/iPadOS/watchOS family the same way the same fees on the Play Store probably help develop Android.
- kareemsabri 4y ago
  Yeah, I'm not saying it would be simple or even that the experience in alternative app stores / apps wouldn't be much worse. I expect it would be worse. I just think if I buy a phone I should be able to run what I want on it, without unreasonable impediment. I appreciate the App Store, app review and the relative thoroughness of it (though it hasn't really scaled) and am not suggesting they abandon it. There's room to quibble with my 3% number, but it can't stay 30%, that seems obvious at this point. I disagree that the 30% charge is what makes Apple able to provide those free things. I pay for my Apple Developer Account annually, so while XCode is free to download, distributing my app is not. Apple's hundreds of billions in idle cash to the point where they are flirting with becoming a bank also begs to differ that these fees are necessary to keep the App Store affordable. It's a very profitable business, and I don't begrudge them wanting to keep it, but I would support pressure to reduce fees.
  - ben_w 4y ago
    I’m definitely willing to believe 30% is higher than it needs to be, and while it could probably be argued either way for various reasons, Apple’s large pile of cash is my main reason for anticipating that I would agree with you. However: > I pay for my Apple Developer Account annually, so while XCode is free to download, distributing my app is not. It’s a nominal fee, and judging by how often the apps on my devices announce new updates, probably covers 15 minutes of human time in the average update/release review process. My guess is that’s probably going to be the minimum App Store membership fee regardless of commissions.

ben_w 4y ago

I think it’s possible to make other App Stores work, but they need to be regulated. Some of the things which 3rd party developers complain about Apple requiring are basically "comply with GDPR and no you can’t spam popups to try and bore people into assenting that’s not even allowed by GDPR". Without Apple gatekeeping, I think dark patterns would be the first thing to go wrong. The "no adult content" rule seems very weird given that web browsers exist, even though I can understand why they would want to project a “family friendly” corporate image. That said, I am aware that my Overton window isn’t going to match America: I live in Berlin, and the spinning billboards here sometimes put erotic massage between family dentists and car repairs. But such things varying by county is still a good reason to have multiple stores with different rules, not just multiple availability zones for the same store. The encryption rules… well, that’s a USA export requirement, even when neither the developer nor any of the end users is in America, and while I can easily see why the US wants to require it, that’s not going to be acceptable to other governments in the long term. I can easily believe that the EU would demand an EU App Store that has an equivalent requirement but reporting to the EU instead of to the USA, and so on. That said, the fees structure is likely to be massively complicated by all this. The payment processing fee may be 3% (last time I looked was when Kagi was a payment processor and not a search engine), but the 15/30% that Apple (and on Android, that Google takes even though Android does allow other app stores) charges, also covers free use of iCloud databases, makes Xcode a free download, and likely helps pay for the development of the iOS/iPadOS/watchOS family the same way the same fees on the Play Store probably help develop Android.

kareemsabri 4y ago
Yeah, I'm not saying it would be simple or even that the experience in alternative app stores / apps wouldn't be much worse. I expect it would be worse. I just think if I buy a phone I should be able to run what I want on it, without unreasonable impediment. I appreciate the App Store, app review and the relative thoroughness of it (though it hasn't really scaled) and am not suggesting they abandon it. There's room to quibble with my 3% number, but it can't stay 30%, that seems obvious at this point. I disagree that the 30% charge is what makes Apple able to provide those free things. I pay for my Apple Developer Account annually, so while XCode is free to download, distributing my app is not. Apple's hundreds of billions in idle cash to the point where they are flirting with becoming a bank also begs to differ that these fees are necessary to keep the App Store affordable. It's a very profitable business, and I don't begrudge them wanting to keep it, but I would support pressure to reduce fees.
- ben_w 4y ago
  I’m definitely willing to believe 30% is higher than it needs to be, and while it could probably be argued either way for various reasons, Apple’s large pile of cash is my main reason for anticipating that I would agree with you. However: > I pay for my Apple Developer Account annually, so while XCode is free to download, distributing my app is not. It’s a nominal fee, and judging by how often the apps on my devices announce new updates, probably covers 15 minutes of human time in the average update/release review process. My guess is that’s probably going to be the minimum App Store membership fee regardless of commissions.