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Wow, you have no honesty, do you? I didn't reply to this: > Plants are enough (again, don't forget your B12 vegan supplements). With this: > But malnutritio

Wow, you have no honesty, do you? I didn't reply to this: > Plants are enough (again, don't forget your B12 vegan supplements). With this: > But malnutrition is scarier. I replied to this: > Plants are enough (again, don't forget your B12 vegan supplements). With this: > Plants are enough but you need B12 supplements? What for? You have no interest in a curious and intelligent conversation. All you want is to propagandise your vegan ideology. You will lie, and lie, and ignore everything everyone says, unless they say something that suits you. And even that, you will try to twist to your own purpose. Everything you quote from the American Dietetic Association and the NHS and so on, all that hinges on a vegan diet that is "well planned". Which is very hard to do and most vegans don't manage it. Here's the Vegan society again: > Most vegans show adequate B12 levels to make clinical deficiency unlikely but nonetheless show restricted activity of B12 related enzymes, leading to elevated homocysteine levels. Strong evidence has been gathered over the past decade that even slightly elevated homocysteine levels increase risk of heart disease and stroke and pregnancy complications. https://www.vegansociety.com/resources/nutrition-and-health/nutrients/vitamin-b12/what-every-vegan-should-know-about-vitamin-b12 https://www.vegansociety.com/resources/nutrition-and-health/... "Most vegans" ... risk heart disease, stroke and pregnancy complications! "Most vegans". Most! Because they don't get enough B12! But you insist that "plants are enough" and that everyone can get enough B12 from nori and seaweed, which is patently false. And when you're challenged about it, you pretend you've been saying that all along: don't forget your supplements folks! (in parentheses). Well, why do you need supplements when your diet is healthy? Why do you need supplements if "plants are enough"? Why do you need supplements if you can get enough B12 fron nori and seaweed? Because plants are not enough. You need a balanced diet to stay healthy and if you cut meat and animal products from your diet your are putting your health at risk. But you and other vegans will never admit that because it just doesn't look good. You just want people to stop eating meat and if that means never telling them how dangerous that is to their health, well so be it. Irresponsible, dishonest, fanatical liars.

myshpa 4y ago
I've been a meat eater 40+ years. I wrote that at least B12 supplementation is necessary, you want to ignore that. Maybe I was not clear enough, but then, English is not my first language. > I didn't reply to this I've just tried to extract the core of my position, and of yours. Sorry if I was not clear enough (I don't like to spend my time in discussions, so I'm maybe too hasty in formulating my comments). > Plants are enough (again, don't forget your B12 vegan supplements). Does it mean you don't need to supplement? Doesn't it mean you may eat only plant-based diet, with B12 supplementation, and then be healthy? Maybe my english is worse than i thought. > You have no interest in a curious and intelligent conversation. All you want is to propagandise your vegan ideology. If there is any propaganda, it's of meat & dairy industry. Any connection, cheese queen? > "Most vegans" ... risk heart disease, stroke and pregnancy complications! "Most vegans". Most! Because they don't get enough B12! Hence the supplementation. Me & my wife have been supplementing from the start, several years now, and take regular blood tests. No problems what so ever. My doctor quipped that he've never seen such optimal blood test as mine is (all values in the optimal range). > Well, why do you need supplements when your diet is healthy? Because B12 in the meat is from earth bacteria (ideally, or from vitamins the animals are fed). We wash our food, animals don't. But we can rely on our marvelous production capabilities, and produce required supplements from vegan, non-animal sources, directly for human population. With veganism on the rise there is more and more fortified foods available, so I suppose it will be less and less problem in the future. > Because plants are not enough. You need a balanced diet to stay healthy and if you cut meat and animal products from your diet your are putting your health at risk. No, you are not putting your health at risk. There is where my beef with your position is. Western diet is linked to a lot of health problems. A lot of those problems is linked to meat/dairy intake. For example, milk/cheese is linked to alzheimer/parkinson, meat is full of herbicides/pesticides/omega-6, eggs are full of cholesterol ... you're deliberaly ignoring that with B12 supplementation a plant based diet is healthier. > Irresponsible, dishonest, fanatical liars. You seem very angry, determined in your ways, and nitpicky. I dont' have time to discuss this further with you. Have a nice day!
- cheese_goddess 4y ago
  > If there is any propaganda, it's of meat & dairy industry. Any connection, cheese queen? My handle is "cheese_goddess" and I'm an amateur cheesemaker, you puerile buffoon. > Western diet is linked to a lot of health problems. A lot of those problems is linked to meat/dairy intake. For example, milk/cheese is linked to alzheimer/parkinson, meat is full of herbicides/pesticides/omega-6, eggs are full of cholesterol ... you're deliberaly ignoring that with B12 supplementation a plant based diet is healthier. You are misinformed: Preventive Effects of Dairy Products on Dementia and the Underlying Mechanisms > Alongside the rapid population aging occurring worldwide, the prevention of age-related memory decline and dementia has become a high priority. Dairy products have many physiological effects owing to their contents of lactic acid bacteria and the fatty acids and peptides generated during their fermentation. In particular, several recent studies have elucidated the effects of fermented dairy products on cognitive function. Epidemiological and clinical evidence has indicated that fermented dairy products have preventive effects against dementia, including Alzheimer’s disease. Recent preclinical studies have identified individual molecules generated during fermentation that are responsible for those preventive effects. Oleamide and dehydroergosterol have been identified as the agents responsible for reducing microglial inflammatory responses and neurotoxicity. In this review, the protective effects of fermented dairy products and their components on cognitive function, the mechanisms underlying those effects, and the prospects for their future clinical development will be discussed. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6073537/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6073537/ Are chicken eggs good or bad for my cholesterol? > Chicken eggs are an affordable source of protein and other nutrients. They're also naturally high in cholesterol. But the cholesterol in eggs doesn't seem to raise cholesterol levels the way some other foods, such as those high in trans fats and saturated fats, do. https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/high-blood-cholesterol/expert-answers/cholesterol/faq-20058468 https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/high-blood-ch... Health effects of vegetarian and vegan diets > Overall, the data suggest that the health of Western vegetarians is good and similar to that of comparable non-vegetarians. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16441942/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16441942/ ("Similar" is not "better". I'm also not a native English speaker and that's no excuse to not be able to read). How a vegan diet could affect your intelligence > Later in life, the amount of B12 in a person’s blood has been directly correlated with their IQ. In the elderly, one study found that the brains of those with lower B12 were six times more likely to be shrinking. https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200127-how-a-vegan-diet-could-affect-your-intelligence https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200127-how-a-vegan-diet... Vegan diets are adding to malnutrition in wealthy countries https://theconversation.com/vegan-diets-are-adding-to-malnutrition-in-wealthy-countries-107555 https://theconversation.com/vegan-diets-are-adding-to-malnut... Is a vegan diet healthier? Five reasons why we can’t tell for sure https://theconversation.com/is-a-vegan-diet-healthier-five-reasons-why-we-cant-tell-for-sure-152131 https://theconversation.com/is-a-vegan-diet-healthier-five-r... Why we shouldn’t all be vegan > And, if vegetarian diets show that traditional markers for heart disease, such as “total cholesterol”, are usually improved, this is not the case for the more predictive (and thus valuable) markers such as the triglyceride/HDL (or “good” cholesterol) ratio, which even tend to deteriorate. https://theconversation.com/why-we-shouldnt-all-be-vegan-109308 https://theconversation.com/why-we-shouldnt-all-be-vegan-109... > Have a nice day! Aw, you too! And don't forget your B12 supplements! Or else your brain will shrink.

myshpa 4y ago

I've been a meat eater 40+ years. I wrote that at least B12 supplementation is necessary, you want to ignore that. Maybe I was not clear enough, but then, English is not my first language. > I didn't reply to this I've just tried to extract the core of my position, and of yours. Sorry if I was not clear enough (I don't like to spend my time in discussions, so I'm maybe too hasty in formulating my comments). > Plants are enough (again, don't forget your B12 vegan supplements). Does it mean you don't need to supplement? Doesn't it mean you may eat only plant-based diet, with B12 supplementation, and then be healthy? Maybe my english is worse than i thought. > You have no interest in a curious and intelligent conversation. All you want is to propagandise your vegan ideology. If there is any propaganda, it's of meat & dairy industry. Any connection, cheese queen? > "Most vegans" ... risk heart disease, stroke and pregnancy complications! "Most vegans". Most! Because they don't get enough B12! Hence the supplementation. Me & my wife have been supplementing from the start, several years now, and take regular blood tests. No problems what so ever. My doctor quipped that he've never seen such optimal blood test as mine is (all values in the optimal range). > Well, why do you need supplements when your diet is healthy? Because B12 in the meat is from earth bacteria (ideally, or from vitamins the animals are fed). We wash our food, animals don't. But we can rely on our marvelous production capabilities, and produce required supplements from vegan, non-animal sources, directly for human population. With veganism on the rise there is more and more fortified foods available, so I suppose it will be less and less problem in the future. > Because plants are not enough. You need a balanced diet to stay healthy and if you cut meat and animal products from your diet your are putting your health at risk. No, you are not putting your health at risk. There is where my beef with your position is. Western diet is linked to a lot of health problems. A lot of those problems is linked to meat/dairy intake. For example, milk/cheese is linked to alzheimer/parkinson, meat is full of herbicides/pesticides/omega-6, eggs are full of cholesterol ... you're deliberaly ignoring that with B12 supplementation a plant based diet is healthier. > Irresponsible, dishonest, fanatical liars. You seem very angry, determined in your ways, and nitpicky. I dont' have time to discuss this further with you. Have a nice day!

cheese_goddess 4y ago
> If there is any propaganda, it's of meat & dairy industry. Any connection, cheese queen? My handle is "cheese_goddess" and I'm an amateur cheesemaker, you puerile buffoon. > Western diet is linked to a lot of health problems. A lot of those problems is linked to meat/dairy intake. For example, milk/cheese is linked to alzheimer/parkinson, meat is full of herbicides/pesticides/omega-6, eggs are full of cholesterol ... you're deliberaly ignoring that with B12 supplementation a plant based diet is healthier. You are misinformed: Preventive Effects of Dairy Products on Dementia and the Underlying Mechanisms > Alongside the rapid population aging occurring worldwide, the prevention of age-related memory decline and dementia has become a high priority. Dairy products have many physiological effects owing to their contents of lactic acid bacteria and the fatty acids and peptides generated during their fermentation. In particular, several recent studies have elucidated the effects of fermented dairy products on cognitive function. Epidemiological and clinical evidence has indicated that fermented dairy products have preventive effects against dementia, including Alzheimer’s disease. Recent preclinical studies have identified individual molecules generated during fermentation that are responsible for those preventive effects. Oleamide and dehydroergosterol have been identified as the agents responsible for reducing microglial inflammatory responses and neurotoxicity. In this review, the protective effects of fermented dairy products and their components on cognitive function, the mechanisms underlying those effects, and the prospects for their future clinical development will be discussed. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6073537/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6073537/ Are chicken eggs good or bad for my cholesterol? > Chicken eggs are an affordable source of protein and other nutrients. They're also naturally high in cholesterol. But the cholesterol in eggs doesn't seem to raise cholesterol levels the way some other foods, such as those high in trans fats and saturated fats, do. https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/high-blood-cholesterol/expert-answers/cholesterol/faq-20058468 https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/high-blood-ch... Health effects of vegetarian and vegan diets > Overall, the data suggest that the health of Western vegetarians is good and similar to that of comparable non-vegetarians. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16441942/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16441942/ ("Similar" is not "better". I'm also not a native English speaker and that's no excuse to not be able to read). How a vegan diet could affect your intelligence > Later in life, the amount of B12 in a person’s blood has been directly correlated with their IQ. In the elderly, one study found that the brains of those with lower B12 were six times more likely to be shrinking. https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200127-how-a-vegan-diet-could-affect-your-intelligence https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200127-how-a-vegan-diet... Vegan diets are adding to malnutrition in wealthy countries https://theconversation.com/vegan-diets-are-adding-to-malnutrition-in-wealthy-countries-107555 https://theconversation.com/vegan-diets-are-adding-to-malnut... Is a vegan diet healthier? Five reasons why we can’t tell for sure https://theconversation.com/is-a-vegan-diet-healthier-five-reasons-why-we-cant-tell-for-sure-152131 https://theconversation.com/is-a-vegan-diet-healthier-five-r... Why we shouldn’t all be vegan > And, if vegetarian diets show that traditional markers for heart disease, such as “total cholesterol”, are usually improved, this is not the case for the more predictive (and thus valuable) markers such as the triglyceride/HDL (or “good” cholesterol) ratio, which even tend to deteriorate. https://theconversation.com/why-we-shouldnt-all-be-vegan-109308 https://theconversation.com/why-we-shouldnt-all-be-vegan-109... > Have a nice day! Aw, you too! And don't forget your B12 supplements! Or else your brain will shrink.