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My personal experience is that free will is axiomatic. It comes before everything else. What am I? What ever is making these decisions. If weren't, then I would

My personal experience is that free will is axiomatic. It comes before everything else. What am I? What ever is making these decisions. If weren't, then I wouldn't be the person asking, I'd just be a puppet, therefore my identity would be that of whatever is the hand, and so on until you find whatever is making the decision. Because if the meat puppet didn't make the decision to write this, then you're not conversing with the meat puppet, you're still conversing with the puppeteer.

denton-scratch 4y ago
> My personal experience is that free will is axiomatic. How does that even make sense? "Axiomatic" doesn't mean "true"; it simply means that the axiomatic proposition is a given for the system of reasoning you are using. So if you take X to be axiomatic, that isn't an experience; it's a decision you made. I'm assuming that you can make decisions, because if you are using axioms you are engaged in reasoning, which is a deliberative process. So an axiom isn't a thing you can experience; it's a thing you create. The very existence of an axiom implies reasoning, so deliberation, so free will.
- anothernewdude 4y ago
  It's what you have to base everything else on. It comes prior to everything else. Free Will is on the same level as the Cogito. Everything else comes after. I think, therefore I am. What is part of identity? Free will. If not free will, then there is no identity, no "I". Axiomatic means unquestionable. The meaning of axiom as a premise for an argument came later.
  - denton-scratch 4y ago
    > Axiomatic means unquestionable. Not really; I challenge you to find a dictionary that says the two terms are synonymous. Originally an axiom was a proposition that was "self-evident". But there's a long history of people questioning "self-evident" propositions, happily for us. There seems to be a colloquial usage of "axiom" to mean a proposition that someone doesn't want us to question. I deprecate that usage. For example, the Law of The Excluded Middle is an axiom, but it has often been questioned; ergo, it is not unquestionable.
    - anothernewdude 4y ago
      Oxford: axiomatic /ˌaksɪəˈmatɪk/ adjective: axiomatic self-evident or unquestionable. And you've devolved here into semantics. The point is that for you to even think about the subject, you must have free will. If you are not deciding to think about it, then you are not thinking about it.

denton-scratch 4y ago

> My personal experience is that free will is axiomatic. How does that even make sense? "Axiomatic" doesn't mean "true"; it simply means that the axiomatic proposition is a given for the system of reasoning you are using. So if you take X to be axiomatic, that isn't an experience; it's a decision you made. I'm assuming that you can make decisions, because if you are using axioms you are engaged in reasoning, which is a deliberative process. So an axiom isn't a thing you can experience; it's a thing you create. The very existence of an axiom implies reasoning, so deliberation, so free will.

anothernewdude 4y ago
It's what you have to base everything else on. It comes prior to everything else. Free Will is on the same level as the Cogito. Everything else comes after. I think, therefore I am. What is part of identity? Free will. If not free will, then there is no identity, no "I". Axiomatic means unquestionable. The meaning of axiom as a premise for an argument came later.
- denton-scratch 4y ago
  > Axiomatic means unquestionable. Not really; I challenge you to find a dictionary that says the two terms are synonymous. Originally an axiom was a proposition that was "self-evident". But there's a long history of people questioning "self-evident" propositions, happily for us. There seems to be a colloquial usage of "axiom" to mean a proposition that someone doesn't want us to question. I deprecate that usage. For example, the Law of The Excluded Middle is an axiom, but it has often been questioned; ergo, it is not unquestionable.
  - anothernewdude 4y ago
    Oxford: axiomatic /ˌaksɪəˈmatɪk/ adjective: axiomatic self-evident or unquestionable. And you've devolved here into semantics. The point is that for you to even think about the subject, you must have free will. If you are not deciding to think about it, then you are not thinking about it.