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Lots of people work their ass off. My housekeeper does, and so do the guys who collect my garbage. They're never going to be financially stable in the way I am

by smt88 4y ago

Lots of people work their ass off. My housekeeper does, and so do the guys who collect my garbage. They're never going to be financially stable in the way I am, though. I work hard too, but I also have luck. You can be rich, lazy, and lucky. You can be rich, hardworking, and lucky. But you can't be rich, hardworking, and unlucky. Luck is necessary ingredient.

TaylorAlexander 4y ago
Yeah to be honest that was always something upsetting about my life. I did really well in math, science, and engineering, but I never really had to try. I was lucky to have a roof over my head growing up, a stable home with science toys and free time to watch educational science shows. I was lucky I had an aptitude for those subjects. But success wasn’t hard for me. I didn’t work very hard. I didn’t do my homework. I dropped out of college after four years and a bunch of dropped classes. And yet I’m so good at engineering I’ve never had any trouble finding a job, and I’ve always had a roof over my head. I watch people work so hard and still struggle. And it’s upsetting. I think everyone should have it as easy as I have, or easier. There is so much wealth in this world. But it doesn’t go to the hard workers. It goes to the lucky. Amongst the lucky there will be some perception of fairness and equity, but that is only because they can’t see the people far above and below them.
- DiggyJohnson 4y ago
  I seriously recommend you learn and implement the word “grateful” whenever you’re feeling bad about being “lucky”.
- plutonorm 4y ago
  We do not have the power to change it. But maybe one day there will be a social movement to make the world a fairer place. When that day comes lean into the movement, provide support, risk some of that security that you have for the possibility of a brighter future for all. Promise yourself that you will follow through when the time comes. That is how I assuage my guilt. If the time is ever right to create meaningful change for the betterment of all, I will be there on the front lines. But the world has to wake up a little first. Until then I will just keep waiting.
  - TaylorAlexander 4y ago
    > We do not have the power to change it. We absolutely do > maybe one day there will be a social movement to make the world a fairer place These movements have existed for hundreds of years > When that day comes lean into the movement That day is in the past > Promise yourself that you will follow through when the time comes. That is how I assuage my guilt. If the time is ever right to create meaningful change for the betterment of all, I will be there on the front lines. I don't want to be rude because you seem to want to help, but assuaging your guilt by hoping some day in the future you will contribute to something positive seems like a plan for inaction. This seems like a great way to ensure that things don't change. There are many movements to change the world for the better. I don't want to get in to specific ideologies but I changed my career so that I am always working in open source, trying to undercut for-profit companies that would patent ideas and charge high prices by offering open source alternatives that people all over the world can build for free (I am working on an open source farming robot project). If you want to know more about how I view this topic more broadly, you can watch one of my videos on the subject. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFcd5EQgMEQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFcd5EQgMEQ
    - plutonorm 4y ago
      It's pointless at the moment. There is no appetite for meaningful change. I've seen friends pour their heart into movements that have no hope of traction, it's a waste. People are caught in ego driven ideological information warfare, you cannot help them during this stage of their evolution. The global consciousness is dragging itself slowly out of the mud and maybe one day it will be ready for meaningful change.
      - TaylorAlexander 4y ago
        There are people affecting change every single day. Whether they are fighting for prison reform to release people convicted of minor drug possession, working to hold police accountable for their many abuses, or stopping major industrial corporations from dumping pollutants in to our aquifers, there are successes every single day. This youtube news channel below is specifically dedicated to covering news of successes like these. You often don't hear about this stuff, but do not let yourself be convinced it is not happening. There is so much that can be done. So many people fighting every day and gaining wins. There isn't much we can do to affect national or global politics, but that doesn't mean we are powerless to make a positive change in some people's lives. Don't let yourself be convinced by those in power that you have none. That is what they want you to think so you won't try to fight back. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-N-Jfj7oGDQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-N-Jfj7oGDQ
losvedir 4y ago
> My housekeeper does, and so do the guys who collect my garbage. They're never going to be financially stable in the way I am, though. This just seems overly reductive in the opposite direction. Do you not know any housekeepers or garbage collectors? It feels like you're going so far out of your way to try to make the person you're responding to feel sorry for them that you're being cruel and dismissive. My mother-in-law was an immigrant housekeeper who over the course of her life eventually became a well paid live-in private chef, for example. And even if someone doesn't become rich they can often provide for subsequent generations. My Dad was able to become a doctor because his immigrant construction laborer father was able to give him enough stability to do well in school. This thread is about having compassion, and certainly the top level comment lacks it. But your comment also kind of lacks it? I know it tries to, but it feels very condescending to me, and takes the agency from vast swathes of people. I can't imagine hanging out among "housekeepers and garbage collectors" and not seeing that they're just people, too, and some are among a vibrant community and have dreams and aspirations for themselves or their children, and hearing bragging of all the success stories of those who have become financially stable the way you are.
- smt88 4y ago
  > Do you not know any housekeepers or garbage collectors? I know my housekeeper very well. We're friends, we've played online games together, and he's cleaned for me for almost 10 years. I help him with his side hustles whenever I can. > It feels like you're going so far out of your way to try to make the person you're responding to feel sorry for them that you're being cruel and dismissive. This is a bizarre reading of my comment. I was trying to think of the hardest-working people I know. I didn't choose them because they are people to pity. Upward mobility in the US is at its lowest in several generations[1]. That's my whole point. > My mother-in-law was an immigrant housekeeper who over the course of her life eventually became a well paid live-in private chef, for example. Great! Doesn't change my point. I don't work as hard as a garbage collector, and I earn 6x what a garbage collector in my city makes by working as a privileged software developer. These people may be financially stable and have good lives, but they won't have money thrown at them the way I (and a lot of software developers) have. > I know it tries to, but it feels very condescending to me, and takes the agency from vast swathes of people. Yes, that is my whole point. We live in a society that takes away people's agency. They can work tirelessly and still not have the "pedigree" that a lot of companies look for. A lot of our society is determined by which family you're lucky enough to be born in, and that is what has taken people's agency away. As for the rest of it, I can't control how you interpret my words. I feel condescending toward people who are lucky like me and don't realize it. I don't feel condescending toward people who work hard and take care of their families. 1. https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/07/social-mobility-america/491240/ https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/07/social-...

by smt88 4y ago

TaylorAlexander 4y ago

Yeah to be honest that was always something upsetting about my life. I did really well in math, science, and engineering, but I never really had to try. I was lucky to have a roof over my head growing up, a stable home with science toys and free time to watch educational science shows. I was lucky I had an aptitude for those subjects. But success wasn’t hard for me. I didn’t work very hard. I didn’t do my homework. I dropped out of college after four years and a bunch of dropped classes. And yet I’m so good at engineering I’ve never had any trouble finding a job, and I’ve always had a roof over my head. I watch people work so hard and still struggle. And it’s upsetting. I think everyone should have it as easy as I have, or easier. There is so much wealth in this world. But it doesn’t go to the hard workers. It goes to the lucky. Amongst the lucky there will be some perception of fairness and equity, but that is only because they can’t see the people far above and below them.

DiggyJohnson 4y ago
I seriously recommend you learn and implement the word “grateful” whenever you’re feeling bad about being “lucky”.
plutonorm 4y ago
We do not have the power to change it. But maybe one day there will be a social movement to make the world a fairer place. When that day comes lean into the movement, provide support, risk some of that security that you have for the possibility of a brighter future for all. Promise yourself that you will follow through when the time comes. That is how I assuage my guilt. If the time is ever right to create meaningful change for the betterment of all, I will be there on the front lines. But the world has to wake up a little first. Until then I will just keep waiting.
- TaylorAlexander 4y ago
  > We do not have the power to change it. We absolutely do > maybe one day there will be a social movement to make the world a fairer place These movements have existed for hundreds of years > When that day comes lean into the movement That day is in the past > Promise yourself that you will follow through when the time comes. That is how I assuage my guilt. If the time is ever right to create meaningful change for the betterment of all, I will be there on the front lines. I don't want to be rude because you seem to want to help, but assuaging your guilt by hoping some day in the future you will contribute to something positive seems like a plan for inaction. This seems like a great way to ensure that things don't change. There are many movements to change the world for the better. I don't want to get in to specific ideologies but I changed my career so that I am always working in open source, trying to undercut for-profit companies that would patent ideas and charge high prices by offering open source alternatives that people all over the world can build for free (I am working on an open source farming robot project). If you want to know more about how I view this topic more broadly, you can watch one of my videos on the subject. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFcd5EQgMEQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFcd5EQgMEQ
  - plutonorm 4y ago
    It's pointless at the moment. There is no appetite for meaningful change. I've seen friends pour their heart into movements that have no hope of traction, it's a waste. People are caught in ego driven ideological information warfare, you cannot help them during this stage of their evolution. The global consciousness is dragging itself slowly out of the mud and maybe one day it will be ready for meaningful change.
    - TaylorAlexander 4y ago
      There are people affecting change every single day. Whether they are fighting for prison reform to release people convicted of minor drug possession, working to hold police accountable for their many abuses, or stopping major industrial corporations from dumping pollutants in to our aquifers, there are successes every single day. This youtube news channel below is specifically dedicated to covering news of successes like these. You often don't hear about this stuff, but do not let yourself be convinced it is not happening. There is so much that can be done. So many people fighting every day and gaining wins. There isn't much we can do to affect national or global politics, but that doesn't mean we are powerless to make a positive change in some people's lives. Don't let yourself be convinced by those in power that you have none. That is what they want you to think so you won't try to fight back. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-N-Jfj7oGDQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-N-Jfj7oGDQ

losvedir 4y ago

> My housekeeper does, and so do the guys who collect my garbage. They're never going to be financially stable in the way I am, though. This just seems overly reductive in the opposite direction. Do you not know any housekeepers or garbage collectors? It feels like you're going so far out of your way to try to make the person you're responding to feel sorry for them that you're being cruel and dismissive. My mother-in-law was an immigrant housekeeper who over the course of her life eventually became a well paid live-in private chef, for example. And even if someone doesn't become rich they can often provide for subsequent generations. My Dad was able to become a doctor because his immigrant construction laborer father was able to give him enough stability to do well in school. This thread is about having compassion, and certainly the top level comment lacks it. But your comment also kind of lacks it? I know it tries to, but it feels very condescending to me, and takes the agency from vast swathes of people. I can't imagine hanging out among "housekeepers and garbage collectors" and not seeing that they're just people, too, and some are among a vibrant community and have dreams and aspirations for themselves or their children, and hearing bragging of all the success stories of those who have become financially stable the way you are.

smt88 4y ago
> Do you not know any housekeepers or garbage collectors? I know my housekeeper very well. We're friends, we've played online games together, and he's cleaned for me for almost 10 years. I help him with his side hustles whenever I can. > It feels like you're going so far out of your way to try to make the person you're responding to feel sorry for them that you're being cruel and dismissive. This is a bizarre reading of my comment. I was trying to think of the hardest-working people I know. I didn't choose them because they are people to pity. Upward mobility in the US is at its lowest in several generations[1]. That's my whole point. > My mother-in-law was an immigrant housekeeper who over the course of her life eventually became a well paid live-in private chef, for example. Great! Doesn't change my point. I don't work as hard as a garbage collector, and I earn 6x what a garbage collector in my city makes by working as a privileged software developer. These people may be financially stable and have good lives, but they won't have money thrown at them the way I (and a lot of software developers) have. > I know it tries to, but it feels very condescending to me, and takes the agency from vast swathes of people. Yes, that is my whole point. We live in a society that takes away people's agency. They can work tirelessly and still not have the "pedigree" that a lot of companies look for. A lot of our society is determined by which family you're lucky enough to be born in, and that is what has taken people's agency away. As for the rest of it, I can't control how you interpret my words. I feel condescending toward people who are lucky like me and don't realize it. I don't feel condescending toward people who work hard and take care of their families. 1. https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/07/social-mobility-america/491240/ https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/07/social-...