5 ms·

Makes me so annoyed people say "you're lucky" like nah, I worked my ass off

by ge96 4y ago

rjbwork 4y ago
Hard work alone does not yield success. Any of us who have succeeded have had a huge amount of luck. Simply being born in what is presumably a first world country during a time of relative prosperity is already a tremendous amount of luck.
smt88 4y ago
Lots of people work their ass off. My housekeeper does, and so do the guys who collect my garbage. They're never going to be financially stable in the way I am, though. I work hard too, but I also have luck. You can be rich, lazy, and lucky. You can be rich, hardworking, and lucky. But you can't be rich, hardworking, and unlucky. Luck is necessary ingredient.
- TaylorAlexander 4y ago
  Yeah to be honest that was always something upsetting about my life. I did really well in math, science, and engineering, but I never really had to try. I was lucky to have a roof over my head growing up, a stable home with science toys and free time to watch educational science shows. I was lucky I had an aptitude for those subjects. But success wasn’t hard for me. I didn’t work very hard. I didn’t do my homework. I dropped out of college after four years and a bunch of dropped classes. And yet I’m so good at engineering I’ve never had any trouble finding a job, and I’ve always had a roof over my head. I watch people work so hard and still struggle. And it’s upsetting. I think everyone should have it as easy as I have, or easier. There is so much wealth in this world. But it doesn’t go to the hard workers. It goes to the lucky. Amongst the lucky there will be some perception of fairness and equity, but that is only because they can’t see the people far above and below them.
  - DiggyJohnson 4y ago
    I seriously recommend you learn and implement the word “grateful” whenever you’re feeling bad about being “lucky”.
  - plutonorm 4y ago
    We do not have the power to change it. But maybe one day there will be a social movement to make the world a fairer place. When that day comes lean into the movement, provide support, risk some of that security that you have for the possibility of a brighter future for all. Promise yourself that you will follow through when the time comes. That is how I assuage my guilt. If the time is ever right to create meaningful change for the betterment of all, I will be there on the front lines. But the world has to wake up a little first. Until then I will just keep waiting.
    - TaylorAlexander 4y ago
      > We do not have the power to change it. We absolutely do > maybe one day there will be a social movement to make the world a fairer place These movements have existed for hundreds of years > When that day comes lean into the movement That day is in the past > Promise yourself that you will follow through when the time comes. That is how I assuage my guilt. If the time is ever right to create meaningful change for the betterment of all, I will be there on the front lines. I don't want to be rude because you seem to want to help, but assuaging your guilt by hoping some day in the future you will contribute to something positive seems like a plan for inaction. This seems like a great way to ensure that things don't change. There are many movements to change the world for the better. I don't want to get in to specific ideologies but I changed my career so that I am always working in open source, trying to undercut for-profit companies that would patent ideas and charge high prices by offering open source alternatives that people all over the world can build for free (I am working on an open source farming robot project). If you want to know more about how I view this topic more broadly, you can watch one of my videos on the subject. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFcd5EQgMEQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFcd5EQgMEQ
      - plutonorm 4y ago
        It's pointless at the moment. There is no appetite for meaningful change. I've seen friends pour their heart into movements that have no hope of traction, it's a waste. People are caught in ego driven ideological information warfare, you cannot help them during this stage of their evolution. The global consciousness is dragging itself slowly out of the mud and maybe one day it will be ready for meaningful change.
- losvedir 4y ago
  > My housekeeper does, and so do the guys who collect my garbage. They're never going to be financially stable in the way I am, though. This just seems overly reductive in the opposite direction. Do you not know any housekeepers or garbage collectors? It feels like you're going so far out of your way to try to make the person you're responding to feel sorry for them that you're being cruel and dismissive. My mother-in-law was an immigrant housekeeper who over the course of her life eventually became a well paid live-in private chef, for example. And even if someone doesn't become rich they can often provide for subsequent generations. My Dad was able to become a doctor because his immigrant construction laborer father was able to give him enough stability to do well in school. This thread is about having compassion, and certainly the top level comment lacks it. But your comment also kind of lacks it? I know it tries to, but it feels very condescending to me, and takes the agency from vast swathes of people. I can't imagine hanging out among "housekeepers and garbage collectors" and not seeing that they're just people, too, and some are among a vibrant community and have dreams and aspirations for themselves or their children, and hearing bragging of all the success stories of those who have become financially stable the way you are.
  - smt88 4y ago
    > Do you not know any housekeepers or garbage collectors? I know my housekeeper very well. We're friends, we've played online games together, and he's cleaned for me for almost 10 years. I help him with his side hustles whenever I can. > It feels like you're going so far out of your way to try to make the person you're responding to feel sorry for them that you're being cruel and dismissive. This is a bizarre reading of my comment. I was trying to think of the hardest-working people I know. I didn't choose them because they are people to pity. Upward mobility in the US is at its lowest in several generations[1]. That's my whole point. > My mother-in-law was an immigrant housekeeper who over the course of her life eventually became a well paid live-in private chef, for example. Great! Doesn't change my point. I don't work as hard as a garbage collector, and I earn 6x what a garbage collector in my city makes by working as a privileged software developer. These people may be financially stable and have good lives, but they won't have money thrown at them the way I (and a lot of software developers) have. > I know it tries to, but it feels very condescending to me, and takes the agency from vast swathes of people. Yes, that is my whole point. We live in a society that takes away people's agency. They can work tirelessly and still not have the "pedigree" that a lot of companies look for. A lot of our society is determined by which family you're lucky enough to be born in, and that is what has taken people's agency away. As for the rest of it, I can't control how you interpret my words. I feel condescending toward people who are lucky like me and don't realize it. I don't feel condescending toward people who work hard and take care of their families. 1. https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/07/social-mobility-america/491240/ https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/07/social-...
arwhatever 4y ago
Let’s keep it going - This thread is close to solving whether success is due entirely to luck or entirely to hard work!
Broken_Hippo 4y ago
Just because you worked your ass off doesn't mean that you weren't lucky. It just means you worked your ass off. But so far, you probably either never experienced poverty or was lucky enough to get out. Lots of folks work their ass off and never are able to lift themselves out of poverty. Chances are, you didn't get really sick in school and had to hold off on your studies. And you didn't lose a job because you wound up with an autoimmune disorder and weren't at the job long enough to qualify for FMLA, which was unpaid anyway. If you went to higher education, especially if you went for a Masters or higher - or had any degree that requires unpaid internship - you had someone to help support you during that time - parents, partner, etc. And the list goes on. So many things in everyone's life are the result of just getting lucky and people have no control over this. Sometimes it is just luck avoiding things and sometimes it is just that some folks have a much better starting hand than other folks. Not everyone can get the good cards because the really good cards need to be unlocked with good cards. They still work their asses off, though.
- ge96 4y ago
  Ehh I have written about my history before (washing plates/factory work to SWE) I tried and it took years but I made it, that's my point, wasn't faith... didn't just happen, I guided it
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - nkjnlknlk 4y ago
    You worked hard. Take pride in that. But also know that you were lucky that your hard work manifested into something. Plenty of people work hard, smart, etc. and get nowhere or die. Pretending otherwise is silly.
    - ge96 4y ago
      It sounds dismissive. Try that on your friend or someone that says "I worked hard on this, my company sold, etc..." Ahh you were lucky nice.
annyeonghada 4y ago
This is what every hard working person who has reached success think of themselves while ignoring every istance of luck. How many people have worked harded than you and end up in a menial job, defeated and burned out? I bet they are a lot. And how many just inherited wealth and never lifted a finger in their life? I know they are a lot.

Makes me so annoyed people say "you're lucky" like nah, I worked my ass off

by ge96 4y ago

Makes me so annoyed people say "you're lucky" like nah, I worked my ass off

Hard work alone does not yield success. Any of us who have succeeded have had a huge amount of luck. Simply being born in what is presumably a first world country during a time of relative prosperity is already a tremendous amount of luck.

smt88 4y ago

Lots of people work their ass off. My housekeeper does, and so do the guys who collect my garbage. They're never going to be financially stable in the way I am, though. I work hard too, but I also have luck. You can be rich, lazy, and lucky. You can be rich, hardworking, and lucky. But you can't be rich, hardworking, and unlucky. Luck is necessary ingredient.

TaylorAlexander 4y ago
Yeah to be honest that was always something upsetting about my life. I did really well in math, science, and engineering, but I never really had to try. I was lucky to have a roof over my head growing up, a stable home with science toys and free time to watch educational science shows. I was lucky I had an aptitude for those subjects. But success wasn’t hard for me. I didn’t work very hard. I didn’t do my homework. I dropped out of college after four years and a bunch of dropped classes. And yet I’m so good at engineering I’ve never had any trouble finding a job, and I’ve always had a roof over my head. I watch people work so hard and still struggle. And it’s upsetting. I think everyone should have it as easy as I have, or easier. There is so much wealth in this world. But it doesn’t go to the hard workers. It goes to the lucky. Amongst the lucky there will be some perception of fairness and equity, but that is only because they can’t see the people far above and below them.
- DiggyJohnson 4y ago
  I seriously recommend you learn and implement the word “grateful” whenever you’re feeling bad about being “lucky”.
- plutonorm 4y ago
  We do not have the power to change it. But maybe one day there will be a social movement to make the world a fairer place. When that day comes lean into the movement, provide support, risk some of that security that you have for the possibility of a brighter future for all. Promise yourself that you will follow through when the time comes. That is how I assuage my guilt. If the time is ever right to create meaningful change for the betterment of all, I will be there on the front lines. But the world has to wake up a little first. Until then I will just keep waiting.
  - TaylorAlexander 4y ago
    > We do not have the power to change it. We absolutely do > maybe one day there will be a social movement to make the world a fairer place These movements have existed for hundreds of years > When that day comes lean into the movement That day is in the past > Promise yourself that you will follow through when the time comes. That is how I assuage my guilt. If the time is ever right to create meaningful change for the betterment of all, I will be there on the front lines. I don't want to be rude because you seem to want to help, but assuaging your guilt by hoping some day in the future you will contribute to something positive seems like a plan for inaction. This seems like a great way to ensure that things don't change. There are many movements to change the world for the better. I don't want to get in to specific ideologies but I changed my career so that I am always working in open source, trying to undercut for-profit companies that would patent ideas and charge high prices by offering open source alternatives that people all over the world can build for free (I am working on an open source farming robot project). If you want to know more about how I view this topic more broadly, you can watch one of my videos on the subject. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFcd5EQgMEQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFcd5EQgMEQ
    - plutonorm 4y ago
      It's pointless at the moment. There is no appetite for meaningful change. I've seen friends pour their heart into movements that have no hope of traction, it's a waste. People are caught in ego driven ideological information warfare, you cannot help them during this stage of their evolution. The global consciousness is dragging itself slowly out of the mud and maybe one day it will be ready for meaningful change.
losvedir 4y ago
> My housekeeper does, and so do the guys who collect my garbage. They're never going to be financially stable in the way I am, though. This just seems overly reductive in the opposite direction. Do you not know any housekeepers or garbage collectors? It feels like you're going so far out of your way to try to make the person you're responding to feel sorry for them that you're being cruel and dismissive. My mother-in-law was an immigrant housekeeper who over the course of her life eventually became a well paid live-in private chef, for example. And even if someone doesn't become rich they can often provide for subsequent generations. My Dad was able to become a doctor because his immigrant construction laborer father was able to give him enough stability to do well in school. This thread is about having compassion, and certainly the top level comment lacks it. But your comment also kind of lacks it? I know it tries to, but it feels very condescending to me, and takes the agency from vast swathes of people. I can't imagine hanging out among "housekeepers and garbage collectors" and not seeing that they're just people, too, and some are among a vibrant community and have dreams and aspirations for themselves or their children, and hearing bragging of all the success stories of those who have become financially stable the way you are.
- smt88 4y ago
  > Do you not know any housekeepers or garbage collectors? I know my housekeeper very well. We're friends, we've played online games together, and he's cleaned for me for almost 10 years. I help him with his side hustles whenever I can. > It feels like you're going so far out of your way to try to make the person you're responding to feel sorry for them that you're being cruel and dismissive. This is a bizarre reading of my comment. I was trying to think of the hardest-working people I know. I didn't choose them because they are people to pity. Upward mobility in the US is at its lowest in several generations[1]. That's my whole point. > My mother-in-law was an immigrant housekeeper who over the course of her life eventually became a well paid live-in private chef, for example. Great! Doesn't change my point. I don't work as hard as a garbage collector, and I earn 6x what a garbage collector in my city makes by working as a privileged software developer. These people may be financially stable and have good lives, but they won't have money thrown at them the way I (and a lot of software developers) have. > I know it tries to, but it feels very condescending to me, and takes the agency from vast swathes of people. Yes, that is my whole point. We live in a society that takes away people's agency. They can work tirelessly and still not have the "pedigree" that a lot of companies look for. A lot of our society is determined by which family you're lucky enough to be born in, and that is what has taken people's agency away. As for the rest of it, I can't control how you interpret my words. I feel condescending toward people who are lucky like me and don't realize it. I don't feel condescending toward people who work hard and take care of their families. 1. https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/07/social-mobility-america/491240/ https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/07/social-...

arwhatever 4y ago

Let’s keep it going - This thread is close to solving whether success is due entirely to luck or entirely to hard work!

Broken_Hippo 4y ago

Just because you worked your ass off doesn't mean that you weren't lucky. It just means you worked your ass off. But so far, you probably either never experienced poverty or was lucky enough to get out. Lots of folks work their ass off and never are able to lift themselves out of poverty. Chances are, you didn't get really sick in school and had to hold off on your studies. And you didn't lose a job because you wound up with an autoimmune disorder and weren't at the job long enough to qualify for FMLA, which was unpaid anyway. If you went to higher education, especially if you went for a Masters or higher - or had any degree that requires unpaid internship - you had someone to help support you during that time - parents, partner, etc. And the list goes on. So many things in everyone's life are the result of just getting lucky and people have no control over this. Sometimes it is just luck avoiding things and sometimes it is just that some folks have a much better starting hand than other folks. Not everyone can get the good cards because the really good cards need to be unlocked with good cards. They still work their asses off, though.

ge96 4y ago
Ehh I have written about my history before (washing plates/factory work to SWE) I tried and it took years but I made it, that's my point, wasn't faith... didn't just happen, I guided it
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- nkjnlknlk 4y ago
  You worked hard. Take pride in that. But also know that you were lucky that your hard work manifested into something. Plenty of people work hard, smart, etc. and get nowhere or die. Pretending otherwise is silly.
  - ge96 4y ago
    It sounds dismissive. Try that on your friend or someone that says "I worked hard on this, my company sold, etc..." Ahh you were lucky nice.

annyeonghada 4y ago

This is what every hard working person who has reached success think of themselves while ignoring every istance of luck. How many people have worked harded than you and end up in a menial job, defeated and burned out? I bet they are a lot. And how many just inherited wealth and never lifted a finger in their life? I know they are a lot.