3 ms·

1. So it's coincidence luck that I get advertising for 'window safty latch for children', as an 'interest' for '18-35'? They knew that I was looking for an apar

1. So it's coincidence luck that I get advertising for 'window safty latch for children', as an 'interest' for '18-35'? They knew that I was looking for an apartment and had a kid that was 1yo and thought 'oh you know what that guy needs, window safty latch for his kid' 2. So facebook leaked information that a conversation happened between me and a friend and they thought, oh you know what, Phillip had a conversation with X, and X just search for 'cat toys' so Phillip must want cat toys right now! No, neither of those are 'obvious' explanations.

gruez 4y ago
> 1. So it's coincidence luck that I get advertising for 'window safty latch for children', as an 'interest' for '18-35'? They knew that I was looking for an apartment and had a kid that was 1yo and thought 'oh you know what that guy needs, window safty latch for his kid' It seems doubtful that you can hide the fact that you had a 1 year old kid from facebook, unless you're a very sporadic/careful user. Besides, it's not too hard to imagine one of your friends outed you to facebook (eg. posted photo of you with a baby, or mentioning the fact that you have a baby on a post/comment somewhere). From there it doesn't seem too implausible that "had 1 year old kid" was a targeting factor for "window safty latch for children". As for the "looking for an apartment" part, I don't really think that's necessary for sending you ads for safety latches. Even if you live in a house you'd need latches to secure room windows that are on the second floor. >2. So facebook leaked information that a conversation happened between me and a friend and they thought, oh you know what, Phillip had a conversation with X, and X just search for 'cat toys' so Phillip must want cat toys right now! e2e provides zero assurances about metadata/social graph. that's been the case since PGP days.
- philliphaydon 4y ago
  1. I was never hiding that fact. But if those ads showed without any pre-discussion on whats app, i wouldn't care. The point is. Those ad's did not show until shortly after the whats app conversation. That suggests that Facebook is aware of the conversations that occur on whats app that are not business accounts. So e2ee is false. 2. Again, those ad's never showed until shortly after the conversation occurred. I'm talking within ~30m of the discussion. That's too soon to be a coincidence.
  - scrollaway 4y ago
    And what about all the times you talked about things on WhatsApp and Facebook didn’t start showing you ads about whatever? Confirmation bias is a hell of a thing; it works in many different ways. Personally over years of usage I’ve never had WhatsApp convos trigger ads.
    - philliphaydon 4y ago
      Majority of people I talk to are Messenger, LINE, and Telegram. So I only have a few people on Facebook. The Business accounts 100% cause me to get advertising on facebook. For example last week the butcher I used to purchase from in Singapore messaged me from his business account advertising arrival of new meat. Boom I get advertising for meat products in Singapore and Taiwan. The issue is, I have only 3 chats happening in WhatsApp in the last 2 years that are non-business chats. And all 3 have had conversations resulting in advertising.
      - scrollaway 4y ago
        Business account chat logs are read by Facebook because the chats are sent via other means than WhatsApp. I don’t believe you can verify identity on business accounts either anyway so that’s moot. As for your other examples, as I said, it’s all very circumstantial and coincidental. Not evidence. Your accusation is more serious than you think, and serious accusations need serious evidence.
        philliphaydon 4y ago
        I have absolutely no problem accusing Facebook. It's not like they will try to prove me wrong or anything. We only assume that WA is using e2ee, but the reality is they have told us. Never proven it.
        scrollaway 4y ago
        Except that WhatsApp uses the same protocol as signal. If you’re saying Facebook can just decrypt stuff at will, your accusations are quite extreme, and you better back it up with stronger evidence.

gruez 4y ago

> 1. So it's coincidence luck that I get advertising for 'window safty latch for children', as an 'interest' for '18-35'? They knew that I was looking for an apartment and had a kid that was 1yo and thought 'oh you know what that guy needs, window safty latch for his kid' It seems doubtful that you can hide the fact that you had a 1 year old kid from facebook, unless you're a very sporadic/careful user. Besides, it's not too hard to imagine one of your friends outed you to facebook (eg. posted photo of you with a baby, or mentioning the fact that you have a baby on a post/comment somewhere). From there it doesn't seem too implausible that "had 1 year old kid" was a targeting factor for "window safty latch for children". As for the "looking for an apartment" part, I don't really think that's necessary for sending you ads for safety latches. Even if you live in a house you'd need latches to secure room windows that are on the second floor. >2. So facebook leaked information that a conversation happened between me and a friend and they thought, oh you know what, Phillip had a conversation with X, and X just search for 'cat toys' so Phillip must want cat toys right now! e2e provides zero assurances about metadata/social graph. that's been the case since PGP days.

philliphaydon 4y ago
1. I was never hiding that fact. But if those ads showed without any pre-discussion on whats app, i wouldn't care. The point is. Those ad's did not show until shortly after the whats app conversation. That suggests that Facebook is aware of the conversations that occur on whats app that are not business accounts. So e2ee is false. 2. Again, those ad's never showed until shortly after the conversation occurred. I'm talking within ~30m of the discussion. That's too soon to be a coincidence.
- scrollaway 4y ago
  And what about all the times you talked about things on WhatsApp and Facebook didn’t start showing you ads about whatever? Confirmation bias is a hell of a thing; it works in many different ways. Personally over years of usage I’ve never had WhatsApp convos trigger ads.
  - philliphaydon 4y ago
    Majority of people I talk to are Messenger, LINE, and Telegram. So I only have a few people on Facebook. The Business accounts 100% cause me to get advertising on facebook. For example last week the butcher I used to purchase from in Singapore messaged me from his business account advertising arrival of new meat. Boom I get advertising for meat products in Singapore and Taiwan. The issue is, I have only 3 chats happening in WhatsApp in the last 2 years that are non-business chats. And all 3 have had conversations resulting in advertising.
    - scrollaway 4y ago
      Business account chat logs are read by Facebook because the chats are sent via other means than WhatsApp. I don’t believe you can verify identity on business accounts either anyway so that’s moot. As for your other examples, as I said, it’s all very circumstantial and coincidental. Not evidence. Your accusation is more serious than you think, and serious accusations need serious evidence.
      - philliphaydon 4y ago
        I have absolutely no problem accusing Facebook. It's not like they will try to prove me wrong or anything. We only assume that WA is using e2ee, but the reality is they have told us. Never proven it.
        scrollaway 4y ago
        Except that WhatsApp uses the same protocol as signal. If you’re saying Facebook can just decrypt stuff at will, your accusations are quite extreme, and you better back it up with stronger evidence.