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Why would you reward an informative comment with analytics data? To try and encourage more of the same. The opposite of why you would not reward poor content wi

Why would you reward an informative comment with analytics data? To try and encourage more of the same. The opposite of why you would not reward poor content with a "read receipt". Like before, content that sees no data in return will eventually bore those creating it. In the case of someone posting informative content, you don't want the author to get bored.

Volundr 4y ago
But surely downvotes will discourage informative comments? I'd most certainly be discouraged to find that comment I worked hard on to provide context in an area I'm an expert grey and dead. Thank goodness this is not actually how most people use up/downvotes.
- randomdata 4y ago
  Why would you be discouraged by knowing that, under a reasonable assumption, that someone read your comment? Isn't that kind of the whole point of contributing? To have people read your content? When you receive no feedback is when you are left to think that nobody saw it. That's when you grow bored and eventually quit.
  - felurx 4y ago
    The point of up- and downvoting literally is to decide what should be more or less visible. By downvoting useful/informative content, you're making it less visible for others, and for most people, it's discouraging to see that someone just pressed the "I did not like that, I think it's bad, show it to less people" button. You're the first person I've ever seen to say to downvote informative content, and that's a very good thing, because if everyone behaved like that, that behaviour would be like dumping fuel into the fire that is post-facticism and ignorance on the internet.
    - randomdata 4y ago
      If that were the case there would be no benefit in providing information to the content creator about the points their comment has received. Instead, we can determine this information is provided because the purpose of voting is to provide a "read receipt" to the creator, enabling one to know that someone has, with a reasonable degree of confidence, consumed his content. It is ultimately a poor man's analytics system. For what reason would you want to provide analytics data to a creator when you believe their content is "bad"? As I said before, the reason one will post on HN is to have their content seen by an audience. After all, if your intent was simply to write, why not open up notepad.exe instead? The reality is that users come to HN for the audience it provides. Logically, if someone is creating low value content, you want to leave them believing that no audience is seeing their content, not feed them with information. Don't feed the trolls, as the saying goes. There is no actual meaning given to the buttons. No rules which state that you can press them only under exacting circumstances. Paul Graham himself says that they have no meaning and you are free to use them as you please, asking only that you do not press a button until you have genuinely read the content associated with it, corroborating the idea that it is meant to be an analytics system of sorts. As you have even pointed out yourself, interpretation is left to the user pressing the button. Which means that all you can know is that someone pressed a button. And therefore, again, it is only usable information is to know if you have an audience or not. And when it comes to low value you content, you want to hide from the user that they have an audience. Don't feed the trolls, as the saying goes. Furthermore, I am not sure your logic holds. I have received a number of informative/downvote responses for my comment and it is currently found near the top of the page where most will see it and as a result has also garnered the most reply activity any of my comments have seen to date. If users are trying to make it less visible, they have failed miserably. The feedback that has been provided indicates that this is one of my most visible comments ever. Again, the buttons have no real meaning. They are there simply to provide knowledge of someone having consumed your content. However, to try and find meaning, it seems most have settled on upvote = funny, downvote = informative. What is certain is that you do not want to feed the trolls. Providing analytics data to those creating garbage is how you end up with "post-facticism and ignorance on the internet" so the idea of using the downarrow to ward off negative content is completely nonsensical.
      - 4y ago
  - dr_kiszonka 4y ago
    I'd say most people get discouraged by downvotes, except for trolls maybe, but I have no data to support it. I'd request that you don't downvote my comments should you ever find one informative.
  - Volundr 4y ago
    I think someone read my comment and decided it had no place on hn. Downvoting makes the comment less visible, ranking it lower in the page, and eventually invisible to anyone who hasn't turned show dead on. Downvotes also take away karma, potentially losing privileges and eventually being banned if everyone did as you described.

Volundr 4y ago

But surely downvotes will discourage informative comments? I'd most certainly be discouraged to find that comment I worked hard on to provide context in an area I'm an expert grey and dead. Thank goodness this is not actually how most people use up/downvotes.

randomdata 4y ago
Why would you be discouraged by knowing that, under a reasonable assumption, that someone read your comment? Isn't that kind of the whole point of contributing? To have people read your content? When you receive no feedback is when you are left to think that nobody saw it. That's when you grow bored and eventually quit.
- felurx 4y ago
  The point of up- and downvoting literally is to decide what should be more or less visible. By downvoting useful/informative content, you're making it less visible for others, and for most people, it's discouraging to see that someone just pressed the "I did not like that, I think it's bad, show it to less people" button. You're the first person I've ever seen to say to downvote informative content, and that's a very good thing, because if everyone behaved like that, that behaviour would be like dumping fuel into the fire that is post-facticism and ignorance on the internet.
  - randomdata 4y ago
    If that were the case there would be no benefit in providing information to the content creator about the points their comment has received. Instead, we can determine this information is provided because the purpose of voting is to provide a "read receipt" to the creator, enabling one to know that someone has, with a reasonable degree of confidence, consumed his content. It is ultimately a poor man's analytics system. For what reason would you want to provide analytics data to a creator when you believe their content is "bad"? As I said before, the reason one will post on HN is to have their content seen by an audience. After all, if your intent was simply to write, why not open up notepad.exe instead? The reality is that users come to HN for the audience it provides. Logically, if someone is creating low value content, you want to leave them believing that no audience is seeing their content, not feed them with information. Don't feed the trolls, as the saying goes. There is no actual meaning given to the buttons. No rules which state that you can press them only under exacting circumstances. Paul Graham himself says that they have no meaning and you are free to use them as you please, asking only that you do not press a button until you have genuinely read the content associated with it, corroborating the idea that it is meant to be an analytics system of sorts. As you have even pointed out yourself, interpretation is left to the user pressing the button. Which means that all you can know is that someone pressed a button. And therefore, again, it is only usable information is to know if you have an audience or not. And when it comes to low value you content, you want to hide from the user that they have an audience. Don't feed the trolls, as the saying goes. Furthermore, I am not sure your logic holds. I have received a number of informative/downvote responses for my comment and it is currently found near the top of the page where most will see it and as a result has also garnered the most reply activity any of my comments have seen to date. If users are trying to make it less visible, they have failed miserably. The feedback that has been provided indicates that this is one of my most visible comments ever. Again, the buttons have no real meaning. They are there simply to provide knowledge of someone having consumed your content. However, to try and find meaning, it seems most have settled on upvote = funny, downvote = informative. What is certain is that you do not want to feed the trolls. Providing analytics data to those creating garbage is how you end up with "post-facticism and ignorance on the internet" so the idea of using the downarrow to ward off negative content is completely nonsensical.
    - 4y ago
- dr_kiszonka 4y ago
  I'd say most people get discouraged by downvotes, except for trolls maybe, but I have no data to support it. I'd request that you don't downvote my comments should you ever find one informative.
- Volundr 4y ago
  I think someone read my comment and decided it had no place on hn. Downvoting makes the comment less visible, ranking it lower in the page, and eventually invisible to anyone who hasn't turned show dead on. Downvotes also take away karma, potentially losing privileges and eventually being banned if everyone did as you described.