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> that would be like if Apple stopped releasing new phones after the iPhone 4S (launched 2012), and it remained the bestselling phone through now. If I can be

> that would be like if Apple stopped releasing new phones after the iPhone 4S (launched 2012), and it remained the bestselling phone through now. If I can be a bit cheeky - this sounds like exactly the kind of frankly ridiculous comparison a founder would make about their product alright. The reality is - nobody really cares that much. Whatever image you record is going to be gigga-smashed by whatever application you squeeze it through. I switch between the rubbish builtin on my laptop over wifi, and a gopro tuned to the highest res and framerate the cable will take, with colour and exposure tuning etc. Not once person has ever mentioned webcam quality in either case. As long as you can vaguely see _most_ of someone's face in _somewhat_ balanced light - that's good enough. For 99% of people in 99% of cases. Even job interviews where image is everything, it's irrelevant. The problem that needs solving is audio. That actually matters. I tried ping.gg recently which boasts high quality video and audio feeds (for a high price) and even then - meh. Video was entirely unimportant. The only people who really care about live video feed quality are content creators with high powered static systems, like streamers. Even then, they can just hook up a dslr and smash it out of the park with little to no effort. I don't see this as a real problem anyone bar a select few care about - and that select few has already solved the problem anyway. > and think we can achieve a quality level between an iPhone and a DSLR Good luck, but I think you're filling a spectrum nobody is concerned about.

bronco21016 4y ago
Completely agree with you on audio. I’m not entirely certain it’s solvable without cultural norms changing. Even the absolute best noise reduction systems cannot work in every environment and echo cancellation always has enough delay to cause people to “step” on each other. It’s just physics and propagation of sound waves. At a minimum, normalizing the use of in/on ear audio needs to become the norm. Echo cancellation makes most “speakerphone” setups unbearable in my opinion.
- aksss 4y ago
  > cultural norms changing Like what? Greater acceptance of sirens, roosters, kids, dogs, and motorbikes in background while people talking?
  - bronco21016 4y ago
    Using earbuds or earphones. I suppose my comment does seem like it’s talking about background noise. My major issue is echo cancellation. Background noise is a factor that really messes with echo cancellation but, if everyone is using on/in ear audio then it becomes less of a factor.
    - theelous3 4y ago
      Mic positioning and proper gain control is a big one.
      - aksss 4y ago
        Lavalier mics work great, IMO, and some good bookshelf speakers (unless you're in a mixed use home environment, I guess).
atombender 4y ago
You're commenting about an article that is literally about video quality. Everyone here is talking about video quality.
- theelous3 4y ago
  Yeah... on HN in a thread about video quality of course there is a gigantic selection bias of people who care about video quality. I'm speaking more broadly about the world outside of hn - which is the world that actually matters - contrary to the imaginings of hn.
  - atombender 4y ago
    How do you know? This sounds like your opinion, not anything rooted in fact.
    - oblio 4y ago
      Because his opinion is supported by the status quo (crappy cameras everywhere). My anecdata says the same. In most video confs your video is put up on maybe 1/16th of the screen, to the corner, and people generally share something like a presentation. I guess if you're in sales, it matters more since your face will be fullscreen. But even then... most people don't work in shiny offices anymore, are you sure you want to display your dirty socks on the shelf in the back in all their 8k glory? :-D
      - aksss 4y ago
        Camera aside - people will do wonders for their video presence by putting some effort into their background and lighting. If you’re not going to use a blur or picture background, clean up the area, consider how it functions as a backdrop (including wash lighting, etc), and what impression it’s making. Lighting is king - be deliberate about it.
GekkePrutser 4y ago
I don't agree, my boss uses his iPhone a lot and I have commented on the quality of his video and I've seen tons of others do the same. This is with most people using their laptop's cams though which are admittedly terrible. And with MS Teams which is not very good at coping with poor video sources (even the free Jitsi is tons better). Audio is important too yes but we all get noisecancelling headsets in work that make this a non-issue. I live in a really noisy street and most of the year I have the windows wide open (Spain :) ) but curiously they don't even hear it unless one of those d*cks with a muffler-less motorbike races past. By the way how does the gopro work out as a webcam? Never thought of that but it might be an option.
- theelous3 4y ago
  > By the way how does the gopro work out as a webcam? Never thought of that but it might be an option. It works very well. The newest versions can be used directly and natively in webcam mode. Possibly even wirelessly. I have a hero 7 black. I use a cheap adapter and it works flawlessly. One thing to bear in mind is processing power for real time is limited - you won't be able to stream in full 4k with stablisation and so on. But you'll get a high quality feed from a dedicated camera, from which you can tune exposure and so on. Also, the fisheye + different lens output selection is actually quite nice. I commented elsewhere addressing the rest of your comment - selection bias here is extremely strong for "highly specialised tech nerds who care" when my argument is is "the world at large doesn't care". > Audio is important too yes but we all get noisecancelling headsets in work that make this a non-issue. It's not the audio out that matters. It's the audio in. Everyone uses shitty mics.
kenneth 4y ago
The amount of comments I got on my video quality once I set up my mirrorless with proper lights is insane. Nobody cares until they see someone with production quality video and they notice right away. It makes a difference. It's like if nobody cares if you wear a tee and a hoodie, but the second you break the norm and dress a bit nicer people do notice.

bronco21016 4y ago

Completely agree with you on audio. I’m not entirely certain it’s solvable without cultural norms changing. Even the absolute best noise reduction systems cannot work in every environment and echo cancellation always has enough delay to cause people to “step” on each other. It’s just physics and propagation of sound waves. At a minimum, normalizing the use of in/on ear audio needs to become the norm. Echo cancellation makes most “speakerphone” setups unbearable in my opinion.

aksss 4y ago
> cultural norms changing Like what? Greater acceptance of sirens, roosters, kids, dogs, and motorbikes in background while people talking?
- bronco21016 4y ago
  Using earbuds or earphones. I suppose my comment does seem like it’s talking about background noise. My major issue is echo cancellation. Background noise is a factor that really messes with echo cancellation but, if everyone is using on/in ear audio then it becomes less of a factor.
  - theelous3 4y ago
    Mic positioning and proper gain control is a big one.
    - aksss 4y ago
      Lavalier mics work great, IMO, and some good bookshelf speakers (unless you're in a mixed use home environment, I guess).

atombender 4y ago

You're commenting about an article that is literally about video quality. Everyone here is talking about video quality.

theelous3 4y ago
Yeah... on HN in a thread about video quality of course there is a gigantic selection bias of people who care about video quality. I'm speaking more broadly about the world outside of hn - which is the world that actually matters - contrary to the imaginings of hn.
- atombender 4y ago
  How do you know? This sounds like your opinion, not anything rooted in fact.
  - oblio 4y ago
    Because his opinion is supported by the status quo (crappy cameras everywhere). My anecdata says the same. In most video confs your video is put up on maybe 1/16th of the screen, to the corner, and people generally share something like a presentation. I guess if you're in sales, it matters more since your face will be fullscreen. But even then... most people don't work in shiny offices anymore, are you sure you want to display your dirty socks on the shelf in the back in all their 8k glory? :-D
    - aksss 4y ago
      Camera aside - people will do wonders for their video presence by putting some effort into their background and lighting. If you’re not going to use a blur or picture background, clean up the area, consider how it functions as a backdrop (including wash lighting, etc), and what impression it’s making. Lighting is king - be deliberate about it.

GekkePrutser 4y ago

I don't agree, my boss uses his iPhone a lot and I have commented on the quality of his video and I've seen tons of others do the same. This is with most people using their laptop's cams though which are admittedly terrible. And with MS Teams which is not very good at coping with poor video sources (even the free Jitsi is tons better). Audio is important too yes but we all get noisecancelling headsets in work that make this a non-issue. I live in a really noisy street and most of the year I have the windows wide open (Spain :) ) but curiously they don't even hear it unless one of those d*cks with a muffler-less motorbike races past. By the way how does the gopro work out as a webcam? Never thought of that but it might be an option.

theelous3 4y ago
> By the way how does the gopro work out as a webcam? Never thought of that but it might be an option. It works very well. The newest versions can be used directly and natively in webcam mode. Possibly even wirelessly. I have a hero 7 black. I use a cheap adapter and it works flawlessly. One thing to bear in mind is processing power for real time is limited - you won't be able to stream in full 4k with stablisation and so on. But you'll get a high quality feed from a dedicated camera, from which you can tune exposure and so on. Also, the fisheye + different lens output selection is actually quite nice. I commented elsewhere addressing the rest of your comment - selection bias here is extremely strong for "highly specialised tech nerds who care" when my argument is is "the world at large doesn't care". > Audio is important too yes but we all get noisecancelling headsets in work that make this a non-issue. It's not the audio out that matters. It's the audio in. Everyone uses shitty mics.

kenneth 4y ago

The amount of comments I got on my video quality once I set up my mirrorless with proper lights is insane. Nobody cares until they see someone with production quality video and they notice right away. It makes a difference. It's like if nobody cares if you wear a tee and a hoodie, but the second you break the norm and dress a bit nicer people do notice.