3 ms·

If we look away from the time zone difference, I just don't see how the US-based programmers will be able to compete against - say - European programmers, if th

If we look away from the time zone difference, I just don't see how the US-based programmers will be able to compete against - say - European programmers, if the WFH trend continues. If WFH is truly here to stay, then that's one protective barrier down. The language barrier is almost non-existent these days, as most European devs can communicate just fine. The time zone is another, which I think is harder to overcome...but it's usually worse for the Europeans. At least with one European MS office, meetings would have to follow Seattle time. I'm not saying this to put down all the excellent US devs and engineers - but when total compensation in the US can be 2-4 times higher than in very comparable European countries, at least you know there are many European devs that would grab the chance even at a steep discount. US(ish) salaries without having to move to the US is a very nice situation for devs in various European countries. But all in all, I'm really excited to see what the WFH trend will bring us on a global level.

klipt 4y ago
Conversely highly paid Bay Area engineers would probably just move somewhere cheaper (maybe Europe?) if salaries drop. No point in paying ridiculously high rent if you're not getting ridiculously high compensation.
mlboss 4y ago
Why stop with Europe ? It will open opportunities for African /Asian programmers also.
amsnl 4y ago
In my experience EU (particularly NL/FR/DE) engineers have a very different understanding of the level of effort work should entail, and general work/life balance. Perhaps it has something to do with the different level of social “safety net” or just chalk it up to culture.
- 2143 4y ago
  > In my experience EU (particularly NL/FR/DE) engineers have a very different understanding of the level of effort work should entail Could you elaborate on this?
  - amsnl 4y ago
    US startup folks seem to think they should work quite a bit harder in terms of time and more importantly in terms of intensity. EU folks seem to think the intensity should be lower. My limited experience suggests intensity loosely correlates with success, but is dominated by chance.
- nsotelo 4y ago
  As a European I work hard but do expect labour laws to be respected, if that's what you mean. Minimum of 22 days annual vacation (that I use 100% of), paid sick leave, 14 national holidays per year, etc.

klipt 4y ago

Conversely highly paid Bay Area engineers would probably just move somewhere cheaper (maybe Europe?) if salaries drop. No point in paying ridiculously high rent if you're not getting ridiculously high compensation.

mlboss 4y ago

Why stop with Europe ? It will open opportunities for African /Asian programmers also.

amsnl 4y ago

In my experience EU (particularly NL/FR/DE) engineers have a very different understanding of the level of effort work should entail, and general work/life balance. Perhaps it has something to do with the different level of social “safety net” or just chalk it up to culture.

2143 4y ago
> In my experience EU (particularly NL/FR/DE) engineers have a very different understanding of the level of effort work should entail Could you elaborate on this?
- amsnl 4y ago
  US startup folks seem to think they should work quite a bit harder in terms of time and more importantly in terms of intensity. EU folks seem to think the intensity should be lower. My limited experience suggests intensity loosely correlates with success, but is dominated by chance.
nsotelo 4y ago
As a European I work hard but do expect labour laws to be respected, if that's what you mean. Minimum of 22 days annual vacation (that I use 100% of), paid sick leave, 14 national holidays per year, etc.