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I use Tor and a text based client for web browsing for better privacy. That also means I do not allow javascript. Some sites are not usable. About a quarter of

I use Tor and a text based client for web browsing for better privacy. That also means I do not allow javascript. Some sites are not usable. About a quarter of those that will not work require javascript (they won't work at all with it disabled). Most sites do work fine without javascript. Since I don't use "social media" only about five percent of all websites fail because of javascript. Of the remaining three quarters that don't work, they fall into two categories. Those that gatekeep using CAPTCHAs are inaccessible using a text based browser, so I skip those. The remainder just block my requests. About half of all those are Cloudflare. While I constantly curse Cloudflare and consider them an "enemy" of ordinary web users who just want to browse with the dignity we have a right to, they are not the only bad guys in town by a long shot. They are just one more sign of an increasingly hostile web. Google, Twitter, and some parts of the Apple and Microsoft estates are hostile to privacy conscious users too. For the most-part I consider these self-excluding barriers a kind of feature to stop me wasting time on creators and services that are ambivalent or ignorant about how to present themselves accessibly on the web.

charcircuit 4y ago
>While I constantly curse Cloudflare and consider them an "enemy" of ordinary web users who just want to browse with the dignity we have a right to People don't block Tor users because they are antiprivacy. They block Tor users because Tor users are abusing their site and their is no way to tell a good Tor user from a bad Tor user so they are forced to add restrictions to all Tor users. By adopting the same fingerprint as other Tor users you have to prepare for being punished as one.
- crtasm 4y ago
  Perhaps, but they're not forced to treat Tor users trying to view a public page on their website the same as Tor users trying to post a comment/login to an account/etc.
- nonrandomstring 4y ago
  I understand how it works. I simply don't "agree" with it. But then I wouldn't, being the innocent party at the sharp end of arbitrary "punishment". One could be weak natured and claim to be a "victim of discrimination" (but then ironically the problem is indiscrimination), or entitled and say Cloudflare and site owners should do a better job. Both seem indignant and unhelpful. The problem is obviously complex. Optimistically, better education of small site operators might help them understand that when they employ a service like this they are excluding significant numbers of the kind of people they might want visiting. I think they should know that, and so supporters of Cloudflare ought not try to muddy the waters or blame those who want a better experience on the web. On the other hand, some sites really don't want visitors who value privacy, and that's fair enough too. Cloudflare etc provide a very effective service for excluding us.
  - anotherevan 4y ago
    I don't think the "punishment" is arbitrary. I think it is the result of a tragedy of the commons situation (the commons being Tor in this case). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons Looking at it from a hoster's point of view, if 0.05% of your traffic comes from X, but 80% of your security issues also come from X, the wisest investment of their time and money is to just block X and move on with their life.

charcircuit 4y ago

>While I constantly curse Cloudflare and consider them an "enemy" of ordinary web users who just want to browse with the dignity we have a right to People don't block Tor users because they are antiprivacy. They block Tor users because Tor users are abusing their site and their is no way to tell a good Tor user from a bad Tor user so they are forced to add restrictions to all Tor users. By adopting the same fingerprint as other Tor users you have to prepare for being punished as one.

crtasm 4y ago
Perhaps, but they're not forced to treat Tor users trying to view a public page on their website the same as Tor users trying to post a comment/login to an account/etc.
nonrandomstring 4y ago
I understand how it works. I simply don't "agree" with it. But then I wouldn't, being the innocent party at the sharp end of arbitrary "punishment". One could be weak natured and claim to be a "victim of discrimination" (but then ironically the problem is indiscrimination), or entitled and say Cloudflare and site owners should do a better job. Both seem indignant and unhelpful. The problem is obviously complex. Optimistically, better education of small site operators might help them understand that when they employ a service like this they are excluding significant numbers of the kind of people they might want visiting. I think they should know that, and so supporters of Cloudflare ought not try to muddy the waters or blame those who want a better experience on the web. On the other hand, some sites really don't want visitors who value privacy, and that's fair enough too. Cloudflare etc provide a very effective service for excluding us.
- anotherevan 4y ago
  I don't think the "punishment" is arbitrary. I think it is the result of a tragedy of the commons situation (the commons being Tor in this case). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons Looking at it from a hoster's point of view, if 0.05% of your traffic comes from X, but 80% of your security issues also come from X, the wisest investment of their time and money is to just block X and move on with their life.