6 ms·

> Guess what... animal feed is substituted with B12. > Meat eaters were also advised to take vitamin D. > Lots of foods are already fortified with these vitam

> Guess what... animal feed is substituted with B12. > Meat eaters were also advised to take vitamin D. > Lots of foods are already fortified with these vitamins. Maybe where you live, but certainly not where I live, and where I eat. Don't project the destructive ways of your culture on everyone else. Not everyone eats the way you do. I for instance, have been brought up on a Mediterrannean diet since birth and I still cook and eat for myself and my people the same way. The Mediterrannean diet is a plant based diet rich in vegetables, fruit, pulses, legumes, and also fish and dairy and overflowing with rivers of extra virgin olive oil. 80% of the traditional dishes in my culture have no animal products in them, or they have only dairy. In my entire life I will probably consume less meat and fewer animal products than any citizen of an industrialised country who turned vegan in their twenties. So I'll take no preaching from you about how I eat, thank you very much. Fix your world and don't mind mine. It's not my lifestyle that is "destroying our biosphere", it is yours, and that of the people who live around you. ... meat and dairy addiction ... Faah. What clueless garbage! Milk and dairy is the richess of my land. You exploit your land to death and then you blame everyone else for your own failings?

uxcolumbo 4y ago
> 80% of the traditional dishes in my culture have no animal products in them Big fan of Mediterranean dishes and yes if more people would have a diet like yours, i.e. more plant based dishes with occasional meat products then that would help immensely fighting deforestation and biosphere destruction. My comment was NOT directed at you personally - since I don't know what your circumstances are. So thanks for clarifying. I was only commenting on your statement that it's not simple to get all the nutrients when you're on a plant-based diet. Most meat & dairy consumed on this planet comes from factory farms - that's why it's so 'cheap'. And those animals are pumped with antibiotics and they also get supplements, like B12. What I'm saying is we can cut out the 'middle-man' and consume those vitamins directly - or let the food industry fortify more foods with those vitamins. And the reason why I mentioned addiction - because it is - here in the Western world anyway. Listen to this podcast by the Physicians for Responsible Medicine. https://www.pcrm.org/news/exam-room-podcast/cheese-trap https://www.pcrm.org/news/exam-room-podcast/cheese-trap If we'd reduce our cheese consumption - we could reduce so many health problems and also free up the stress on our health system. > You exploit your land to death It's more the animals that are exploited to death and for what?
- cheese_goddess 4y ago
  > Most meat & dairy consumed on this planet comes from factory farms - that's why it's so 'cheap'. And those animals are pumped with antibiotics and they also get supplements, like B12. That's not right. What you say does not apply to "this planet". It applies to "the United States", where factory farms are the norm. But they are not the norm outside the USA. For example, FAO reports that 1/3 of the world's food is produced by "family farms" (both animal and crop farms) which tend to be small and are in any case not CAFOs ("concentrated animal feeding operations"). This article quantifies the percentage of "smallholder" farmers to 80% (I haven't been able to find a better source for that number): https://sustainabilitycommunity.springernature.com/posts/are-small-farms-better https://sustainabilitycommunity.springernature.com/posts/are... Note the discrepancy: 1/3 of the world's food is produced by "family farms" but 80% of all farmers are "smallholders". That's because most food is produced and consumed in rich, industrialised countries, and the rest of the world is starving. Meat is certainly not "cheap" for, say, Ghanaian farmers, or their children! Neither is it as plentiful as for American office workers and their children. It might well be that the majority of beef in particular, is produced in factory farms, but that is because CAFOs is where the vast majority of beef is produced in the US which is one of the largest consumers of beef on the entire planet. The citizens of the US, Argentina and Brazil consume annually, per capita, almost twice as much as the citizens of other industrialised countries: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/per-capita-meat-type?country=CHN~USA~IND~ARG~PRT~ETH~JPN~GBR~BRA https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/per-capita-meat-type?coun... As to antibiotics, the EU has now banned the preventive use of antibiotics in farm animals: https://sciencemediahub.eu/2019/01/03/antibiotics-on-farms-europe-votes-to-curb-bad-practices/ https://sciencemediahub.eu/2019/01/03/antibiotics-on-farms-e... And the supplementation of animals with B12 also appears to be a uniquely American thing, as far as I can tell. Certainly where I live, farming is mainly free-range and B12 supplementation is not necessary, at least according to my understanding, that free-grazing animals take their B12 from the bacterial flora of their wild feed... which is also responsible for the terroir of my cheeses, incidentally. > It's more the animals that are exploited to death and for what? That is not my question to answer. My problem is that those destructive methods that your people employ are spreading around the world and slowly taking over the farming and agriculture in my part of the world. Those practices, or the people that promote them, are my mortal enemies. Those practices go against everything I stand for and against everything I believe in. They destroy the traditions that have kept my people healthy and well-nourished for generations, even through poverty and war. They destroy our animals, and they destroy our relation with our animals. The day that all meat and dairy production in my land will be from CAFOs, is the day that we will all have turned into Americans. And then, I will never make cheese again.

uxcolumbo 4y ago

> 80% of the traditional dishes in my culture have no animal products in them Big fan of Mediterranean dishes and yes if more people would have a diet like yours, i.e. more plant based dishes with occasional meat products then that would help immensely fighting deforestation and biosphere destruction. My comment was NOT directed at you personally - since I don't know what your circumstances are. So thanks for clarifying. I was only commenting on your statement that it's not simple to get all the nutrients when you're on a plant-based diet. Most meat & dairy consumed on this planet comes from factory farms - that's why it's so 'cheap'. And those animals are pumped with antibiotics and they also get supplements, like B12. What I'm saying is we can cut out the 'middle-man' and consume those vitamins directly - or let the food industry fortify more foods with those vitamins. And the reason why I mentioned addiction - because it is - here in the Western world anyway. Listen to this podcast by the Physicians for Responsible Medicine. https://www.pcrm.org/news/exam-room-podcast/cheese-trap https://www.pcrm.org/news/exam-room-podcast/cheese-trap If we'd reduce our cheese consumption - we could reduce so many health problems and also free up the stress on our health system. > You exploit your land to death It's more the animals that are exploited to death and for what?

cheese_goddess 4y ago
> Most meat & dairy consumed on this planet comes from factory farms - that's why it's so 'cheap'. And those animals are pumped with antibiotics and they also get supplements, like B12. That's not right. What you say does not apply to "this planet". It applies to "the United States", where factory farms are the norm. But they are not the norm outside the USA. For example, FAO reports that 1/3 of the world's food is produced by "family farms" (both animal and crop farms) which tend to be small and are in any case not CAFOs ("concentrated animal feeding operations"). This article quantifies the percentage of "smallholder" farmers to 80% (I haven't been able to find a better source for that number): https://sustainabilitycommunity.springernature.com/posts/are-small-farms-better https://sustainabilitycommunity.springernature.com/posts/are... Note the discrepancy: 1/3 of the world's food is produced by "family farms" but 80% of all farmers are "smallholders". That's because most food is produced and consumed in rich, industrialised countries, and the rest of the world is starving. Meat is certainly not "cheap" for, say, Ghanaian farmers, or their children! Neither is it as plentiful as for American office workers and their children. It might well be that the majority of beef in particular, is produced in factory farms, but that is because CAFOs is where the vast majority of beef is produced in the US which is one of the largest consumers of beef on the entire planet. The citizens of the US, Argentina and Brazil consume annually, per capita, almost twice as much as the citizens of other industrialised countries: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/per-capita-meat-type?country=CHN~USA~IND~ARG~PRT~ETH~JPN~GBR~BRA https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/per-capita-meat-type?coun... As to antibiotics, the EU has now banned the preventive use of antibiotics in farm animals: https://sciencemediahub.eu/2019/01/03/antibiotics-on-farms-europe-votes-to-curb-bad-practices/ https://sciencemediahub.eu/2019/01/03/antibiotics-on-farms-e... And the supplementation of animals with B12 also appears to be a uniquely American thing, as far as I can tell. Certainly where I live, farming is mainly free-range and B12 supplementation is not necessary, at least according to my understanding, that free-grazing animals take their B12 from the bacterial flora of their wild feed... which is also responsible for the terroir of my cheeses, incidentally. > It's more the animals that are exploited to death and for what? That is not my question to answer. My problem is that those destructive methods that your people employ are spreading around the world and slowly taking over the farming and agriculture in my part of the world. Those practices, or the people that promote them, are my mortal enemies. Those practices go against everything I stand for and against everything I believe in. They destroy the traditions that have kept my people healthy and well-nourished for generations, even through poverty and war. They destroy our animals, and they destroy our relation with our animals. The day that all meat and dairy production in my land will be from CAFOs, is the day that we will all have turned into Americans. And then, I will never make cheese again.