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https://backlinko.com/telegram-users#telegram-popularity-in-selected-countries https://backlinko.com/telegram-users#telegram-popularity-in-... If this stat is

https://backlinko.com/telegram-users#telegram-popularity-in-selected-countries https://backlinko.com/telegram-users#telegram-popularity-in-... If this stat is to be trusted Telegram is the 2nd most popular messaging app in the UK. There must be an awful lot of anti-lockdown protestors, anti-vax groups, anti-semitic, far-right, and so on in that country to make is so popular. By the way, where do the far-left extremists go for their messaging needs? Are they on Whatsapp? Signal? Telegram maybe? I may have missed something but for some reason you only seem to list groups which in the media are labelled 'right' or (as you stated) 'far-right'.

danpalmer 4y ago
Firstly, I think there are a lot of people on the fringe of the extremist groups. Maybe they are only in a "concerned parents" group who talk about vaccines, but it's an on-ramp. Secondly, I think there are methodological issues with that analysis. Measuring by App Store categories is hard to do accurately, only presents a snapshot in time, its numbers that fluctuate a lot, and it only represents new user acquisition, not active user growth. I wouldn't trust this number at all without more information. Anecdotally, I don't know anyone who uses Telegram, although I do know many people who downloaded it once. > where do the far-left extremists go This isn't really something we have a problem with in the UK. I'm sure there are some, but the bulk of our issues are growing far-right, nationalist, and/or authoritarian groups. I don't think a debate over terms is going to be productive, and as this is your third account you might want to be careful with it!
- the_third_wave 4y ago
  > This isn't really something we have a problem with in the UK. I'm sure there are some, but the bulk of our issues are growing far-right, nationalist, and/or authoritarian groups Are we talking about the same United Kingdom as the one where Yougov has been doing polls on the subject of extremism [1]? If so I wonder what gives you the impression that the bulk of [y]our issues are growing far-right, nationalist, and/or authoritarian groups given that those who answered those polls come up with the following ranking: #1 islamic extremism (58%) #2 right-wing extremism (31%) #2 left-wing extremism (23%) Unsurprisingly the results differ widely based upon the political affiliation of the interviewee with left-wing voters placing larger emphasis on right-wing extremism while right-wing voters do the opposite. Nevertheless, left-wing extremism seems to be almost as 'popular' as the right-wing version while both are far less 'popular' than islamic extremism. [1] https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2021/03/11/left-wing-or-right-wing-extremism-more-threat-brit https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2021/0...
  - danpalmer 4y ago
    This is a survey on public perceptions. Not actual threats.
    - the_third_wave 4y ago
      Can you show a survey of actual threats which supports the thesis that left-wing extremism is as insignificant as you claim it to be? From what I am able to see there is not that much difference between the two. Here's a recent report on left-wing extremism in the United Kingdom: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/834429/Allington-McAndrew-Hirsh-2019-Jul-19.pdf https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/... I have not found a similar study on far-right extremism but there is a report giving an overview of the far right: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/834424/Ben_Lee_-_Overview_of_the_far_right.pdf https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/... Reading these reports shows that political violence currently is at a low level in the UK but that it is on the rise internationally which has the potential to lead to an increase both on the far-left as well as the far-right side.
  - ImageXav 4y ago
    The Yougov poll is an interesting exercise in seeing how public perception does not align well with available data [0]. Section 3 of the link breaks down how many people have been identified as at risk from particular ideologies. 'Mixed, unstable or unclear' accounts for 51%. Islamic extremism is 24%. Right-wing extremism is 22%. Left wing extremism is less than 3%. So, the data aligns well with what the original commentator was suggesting. [0] https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/individuals-referred-to-and-supported-through-the-prevent-programme-april-2019-to-march-2020/individuals-referred-to-and-supported-through-the-prevent-programme-april-2019-to-march-2020 https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/individuals-referre...

danpalmer 4y ago

Firstly, I think there are a lot of people on the fringe of the extremist groups. Maybe they are only in a "concerned parents" group who talk about vaccines, but it's an on-ramp. Secondly, I think there are methodological issues with that analysis. Measuring by App Store categories is hard to do accurately, only presents a snapshot in time, its numbers that fluctuate a lot, and it only represents new user acquisition, not active user growth. I wouldn't trust this number at all without more information. Anecdotally, I don't know anyone who uses Telegram, although I do know many people who downloaded it once. > where do the far-left extremists go This isn't really something we have a problem with in the UK. I'm sure there are some, but the bulk of our issues are growing far-right, nationalist, and/or authoritarian groups. I don't think a debate over terms is going to be productive, and as this is your third account you might want to be careful with it!

the_third_wave 4y ago
> This isn't really something we have a problem with in the UK. I'm sure there are some, but the bulk of our issues are growing far-right, nationalist, and/or authoritarian groups Are we talking about the same United Kingdom as the one where Yougov has been doing polls on the subject of extremism [1]? If so I wonder what gives you the impression that the bulk of [y]our issues are growing far-right, nationalist, and/or authoritarian groups given that those who answered those polls come up with the following ranking: #1 islamic extremism (58%) #2 right-wing extremism (31%) #2 left-wing extremism (23%) Unsurprisingly the results differ widely based upon the political affiliation of the interviewee with left-wing voters placing larger emphasis on right-wing extremism while right-wing voters do the opposite. Nevertheless, left-wing extremism seems to be almost as 'popular' as the right-wing version while both are far less 'popular' than islamic extremism. [1] https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2021/03/11/left-wing-or-right-wing-extremism-more-threat-brit https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2021/0...
- danpalmer 4y ago
  This is a survey on public perceptions. Not actual threats.
  - the_third_wave 4y ago
    Can you show a survey of actual threats which supports the thesis that left-wing extremism is as insignificant as you claim it to be? From what I am able to see there is not that much difference between the two. Here's a recent report on left-wing extremism in the United Kingdom: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/834429/Allington-McAndrew-Hirsh-2019-Jul-19.pdf https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/... I have not found a similar study on far-right extremism but there is a report giving an overview of the far right: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/834424/Ben_Lee_-_Overview_of_the_far_right.pdf https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/... Reading these reports shows that political violence currently is at a low level in the UK but that it is on the rise internationally which has the potential to lead to an increase both on the far-left as well as the far-right side.
- ImageXav 4y ago
  The Yougov poll is an interesting exercise in seeing how public perception does not align well with available data [0]. Section 3 of the link breaks down how many people have been identified as at risk from particular ideologies. 'Mixed, unstable or unclear' accounts for 51%. Islamic extremism is 24%. Right-wing extremism is 22%. Left wing extremism is less than 3%. So, the data aligns well with what the original commentator was suggesting. [0] https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/individuals-referred-to-and-supported-through-the-prevent-programme-april-2019-to-march-2020/individuals-referred-to-and-supported-through-the-prevent-programme-april-2019-to-march-2020 https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/individuals-referre...