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I'm curious, do you believe far right is the sad part or nationalism? I ask this because naturally I find both the far left and far right equally insane in the

I'm curious, do you believe far right is the sad part or nationalism? I ask this because naturally I find both the far left and far right equally insane in their convictions (which never stand up to scrutiny). But being against nationalism is a separate issue and seems equally looney to me.

spywaregorilla 4y ago
Both. Nationalism is not the same as patriotism. Patriotism is great. Nationalism breeds Ayn Rand insanity mixed with supremacist views.
- throwntoday 4y ago
  I believe in putting the needs of my nation, and my countrymen above all else. Is that nationalism? I am not against helping others, but not while there is still a single American suffering. Is that a supremacist view? Basically, remember to put on your oxygen mask before helping others.
  - jamithon 4y ago
    > but not while there is still a single American suffering As there will always be someone somewhere suffering, this just sounds like an excuse not to help others.
  - spywaregorilla 4y ago
    Putting on your oxygen mask before helping others is not a helpful analogy. You do this because if you don't get your own mask on you'll pass out and then both of you will be fucked. It's just the rational choice even if you're benevolent and want to help others. If an american is thirsty and a canadian is bleeding out and you prefer to get the american some water, then that's a pretty dick move. If, say, all of europe is facing a severe energy crisis because of a war with russia against which the United States already has a significant interest; and you oppose sending european allies gas supplies because it'll raise prices at the pump for americans; then that's a pretty dick move. If you say the US should drop out of NATO because it pays the most and it can probably defend itself, that's a pretty dick move. It is complicated, of course. But it ends with countries justifying their invasion and genocide of other countries because they have something your own country wants. Or maybe just because they think they're the best and nobody should exist but them. It'd be nice if more people were interested in being a good global citizen rather than grinding against the nash equilibrium at every step. A lot of it is supremacism. And a lot of it takes another leap of ugliness saying whose a "true {country}ian", which becomes a racial, linguistic, or religious thing. I don't think nationalism is particularly overrepresented in america. I do think radicalism individualism where you just can't comprehend doing things that benefit your neighbors over yourself because a cooperative society is stronger as a whole is somewhat uniquely american. and it's embarrassing.
    - throwntoday 4y ago
      > I do think radicalism individualism where you just can't comprehend doing things that benefit your neighbors over yourself because a cooperative society is stronger as a whole is somewhat uniquely american My neighbors are American. I'm not sure how you don't see the argument you're making is just the globalist version of mine. A lot of your argument seems to be rooted in idealism. I don't want my country to collapse because we were so arrogant to think we could save everyone. > You do this because if you don't get your own mask on you'll pass out and then both of you will be fucked. Yes, that was my point. What do you think will happen if America is trying to help it's allies while it is bleeding out?
      - spywaregorilla 4y ago
        > My neighbors are American. I'm not sure how you don't see the argument you're making is just the globalist version of mine. That is the point, genius. That wasn't about you specifically. It is a general problem in America. And the one's who think America must come first in any situation, are just mildly better. But of course tends to just be the politically aligned subset of the population of their own particular state. Woo. > A lot of your argument seems to be rooted in idealism. I don't want my country to collapse because we were so arrogant to think we could save everyone. Strawman > Yes, that was my point. What do you think will happen if America is trying to help it's allies while it is bleeding out? America is not bleeding out
        throwntoday 4y ago
        > It is a general problem in America This is not a problem and it's not exclusive to America. It's human nature for concern to be correlated to social proximity. Not sure what your issue is to be honest but it appears you just have an issue with anyone who doesn't care about the things you appear to. > genius Thank you > Strawman Maybe learn what that means if you're going to use it > America is not bleeding out I can see you are detatched from the reality your average American is living

spywaregorilla 4y ago

Both. Nationalism is not the same as patriotism. Patriotism is great. Nationalism breeds Ayn Rand insanity mixed with supremacist views.

throwntoday 4y ago
I believe in putting the needs of my nation, and my countrymen above all else. Is that nationalism? I am not against helping others, but not while there is still a single American suffering. Is that a supremacist view? Basically, remember to put on your oxygen mask before helping others.
- jamithon 4y ago
  > but not while there is still a single American suffering As there will always be someone somewhere suffering, this just sounds like an excuse not to help others.
- spywaregorilla 4y ago
  Putting on your oxygen mask before helping others is not a helpful analogy. You do this because if you don't get your own mask on you'll pass out and then both of you will be fucked. It's just the rational choice even if you're benevolent and want to help others. If an american is thirsty and a canadian is bleeding out and you prefer to get the american some water, then that's a pretty dick move. If, say, all of europe is facing a severe energy crisis because of a war with russia against which the United States already has a significant interest; and you oppose sending european allies gas supplies because it'll raise prices at the pump for americans; then that's a pretty dick move. If you say the US should drop out of NATO because it pays the most and it can probably defend itself, that's a pretty dick move. It is complicated, of course. But it ends with countries justifying their invasion and genocide of other countries because they have something your own country wants. Or maybe just because they think they're the best and nobody should exist but them. It'd be nice if more people were interested in being a good global citizen rather than grinding against the nash equilibrium at every step. A lot of it is supremacism. And a lot of it takes another leap of ugliness saying whose a "true {country}ian", which becomes a racial, linguistic, or religious thing. I don't think nationalism is particularly overrepresented in america. I do think radicalism individualism where you just can't comprehend doing things that benefit your neighbors over yourself because a cooperative society is stronger as a whole is somewhat uniquely american. and it's embarrassing.
  - throwntoday 4y ago
    > I do think radicalism individualism where you just can't comprehend doing things that benefit your neighbors over yourself because a cooperative society is stronger as a whole is somewhat uniquely american My neighbors are American. I'm not sure how you don't see the argument you're making is just the globalist version of mine. A lot of your argument seems to be rooted in idealism. I don't want my country to collapse because we were so arrogant to think we could save everyone. > You do this because if you don't get your own mask on you'll pass out and then both of you will be fucked. Yes, that was my point. What do you think will happen if America is trying to help it's allies while it is bleeding out?
    - spywaregorilla 4y ago
      > My neighbors are American. I'm not sure how you don't see the argument you're making is just the globalist version of mine. That is the point, genius. That wasn't about you specifically. It is a general problem in America. And the one's who think America must come first in any situation, are just mildly better. But of course tends to just be the politically aligned subset of the population of their own particular state. Woo. > A lot of your argument seems to be rooted in idealism. I don't want my country to collapse because we were so arrogant to think we could save everyone. Strawman > Yes, that was my point. What do you think will happen if America is trying to help it's allies while it is bleeding out? America is not bleeding out
      - throwntoday 4y ago
        > It is a general problem in America This is not a problem and it's not exclusive to America. It's human nature for concern to be correlated to social proximity. Not sure what your issue is to be honest but it appears you just have an issue with anyone who doesn't care about the things you appear to. > genius Thank you > Strawman Maybe learn what that means if you're going to use it > America is not bleeding out I can see you are detatched from the reality your average American is living