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> Is Dubai a place with good protection against government pressure? Depends on the government :) The German government has been throwing a temper tantrum and

> Is Dubai a place with good protection against government pressure? Depends on the government :) The German government has been throwing a temper tantrum and threatening to bad Telegram because Telegram doesn't respond to data requests from German police and spies.

fartcannon 4y ago
So they don't give it to Germany, that's good. Do they give it to Dubai's government?
- vbezhenar 4y ago
  Of course they do. How would you expect legal entity to operate without cooperating with local government. The question is: can German police compel Dubai police to perform the query? Can Russian police to that? Can US police do that? May be UAE will be 21-century Switzerland which failed miserably at being independent, but this specialization of being independent is in demand.
- mhoad 4y ago
  I don’t think UAE is particularly well known for taking a hands off approach. They almost certainly have an unspoken arrangement in exchange for an otherwise drama free existence there.
- fritigern 4y ago
  It's hard to say no to the government that can send policeman to your house.
- weberer 4y ago
  If they don't, people with guns show up.
Barrin92 4y ago
>The German government has been throwing a temper tantrum that 'temper tantrum' is colloquially known as the rule of law, and Telegram has cooperated with the government concerning terrorism and child abuse as they should, or alternatively leave if they consider those rules unacceptable. https://www.digitalinformationworld.com/2022/06/telegram-has-handed-over-user-data-to.html https://www.digitalinformationworld.com/2022/06/telegram-has...
- DocTomoe 4y ago
  I wonder if you would also claim "rule of law" when let's say North Korea tries banning the German news infrastructure world-wide, or Iran bans depiction of unveiled women on the internet, or China starts going against Wikipedia with an enforceable worldwide ban because Tiannamen never happened. It is the nature of an international network that you cannot reasonably expect your government's laws to have any say on a service run in another part of the world. If you do think your government SHOULD have a way to enforce their laws in another country, maybe the internet is not for your country.
  - Barrin92 4y ago
    well I don't think that and nobody demanded that. Telegram merely has to comply regionally concerning in this case German users or content shown to them. Tech companies differentiating their products to comply with local laws is common practice.
    - fritigern 4y ago
      There are no purely "German users". People travel. People talk to people from other countries. Chatrooms have people from all over the world.
      - f1refly 4y ago
        Never stopped nsa and friends, never will.
    - DocTomoe 4y ago
      > nobody demanded that European (and for that matter, Canadian[1]) courts wanting stuff gone internationally is well-documented[2]. It is not unconceivable that German enforcement agencies would use similar tactics. Once you give them the small finger, they will take the whole arm. [1] https://scc-csc.lexum.com/scc-csc/scc-csc/en/item/16701/index.do https://scc-csc.lexum.com/scc-csc/scc-csc/en/item/16701/inde... [2] https://www.heise.de/news/Gericht-Facebook-muss-bei-Rechtsverstoessen-auch-aehnliche-Inhalte-loeschen-6667479.html https://www.heise.de/news/Gericht-Facebook-muss-bei-Rechtsve...

fartcannon 4y ago

So they don't give it to Germany, that's good. Do they give it to Dubai's government?

vbezhenar 4y ago
Of course they do. How would you expect legal entity to operate without cooperating with local government. The question is: can German police compel Dubai police to perform the query? Can Russian police to that? Can US police do that? May be UAE will be 21-century Switzerland which failed miserably at being independent, but this specialization of being independent is in demand.
mhoad 4y ago
I don’t think UAE is particularly well known for taking a hands off approach. They almost certainly have an unspoken arrangement in exchange for an otherwise drama free existence there.
fritigern 4y ago
It's hard to say no to the government that can send policeman to your house.
weberer 4y ago
If they don't, people with guns show up.

Barrin92 4y ago

>The German government has been throwing a temper tantrum that 'temper tantrum' is colloquially known as the rule of law, and Telegram has cooperated with the government concerning terrorism and child abuse as they should, or alternatively leave if they consider those rules unacceptable. https://www.digitalinformationworld.com/2022/06/telegram-has-handed-over-user-data-to.html https://www.digitalinformationworld.com/2022/06/telegram-has...

DocTomoe 4y ago
I wonder if you would also claim "rule of law" when let's say North Korea tries banning the German news infrastructure world-wide, or Iran bans depiction of unveiled women on the internet, or China starts going against Wikipedia with an enforceable worldwide ban because Tiannamen never happened. It is the nature of an international network that you cannot reasonably expect your government's laws to have any say on a service run in another part of the world. If you do think your government SHOULD have a way to enforce their laws in another country, maybe the internet is not for your country.
- Barrin92 4y ago
  well I don't think that and nobody demanded that. Telegram merely has to comply regionally concerning in this case German users or content shown to them. Tech companies differentiating their products to comply with local laws is common practice.
  - fritigern 4y ago
    There are no purely "German users". People travel. People talk to people from other countries. Chatrooms have people from all over the world.
    - f1refly 4y ago
      Never stopped nsa and friends, never will.
  - DocTomoe 4y ago
    > nobody demanded that European (and for that matter, Canadian[1]) courts wanting stuff gone internationally is well-documented[2]. It is not unconceivable that German enforcement agencies would use similar tactics. Once you give them the small finger, they will take the whole arm. [1] https://scc-csc.lexum.com/scc-csc/scc-csc/en/item/16701/index.do https://scc-csc.lexum.com/scc-csc/scc-csc/en/item/16701/inde... [2] https://www.heise.de/news/Gericht-Facebook-muss-bei-Rechtsverstoessen-auch-aehnliche-Inhalte-loeschen-6667479.html https://www.heise.de/news/Gericht-Facebook-muss-bei-Rechtsve...