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"it’s the only popular messenger that is actually easy to programmatically interact with." Let me introduce you to Matrix SDKs https://matrix.org/sdks/ https:/

"it’s the only popular messenger that is actually easy to programmatically interact with." Let me introduce you to Matrix SDKs https://matrix.org/sdks/ https://matrix.org/sdks/

scrollaway 4y ago
Keyword is popular. I’m a proponent of matrix, but it’s absolutely not popular.
- fartcannon 4y ago
  It's very popular with people who value not having their data stored in plaintext.
  - scrollaway 4y ago
    Do you know how much comments like that help Matrix gain a foothold in the closed source messaging space? Not all all, that’s how much. Seriously. Again, huge proponent and financial supporter of matrix efforts here; I think they do an a amazing job. But comments like yours are detrimental to what they do.
    - fartcannon 4y ago
      Nah, they do help the folks who don't know about it.
  - jonathantf2 4y ago
    People don't value that, they value a good UX and the fact that all of their contacts have the app. Matrix has neither of these.
    - fartcannon 4y ago
      People do value that, and they also value a great UX, which Matrix also has. Additionally, matrix, doesn't forcefully associate your plaintext account with your phone number! People with a clue value that.
      - scrollaway 4y ago
        700,000,000 users disagree with your statements. You can’t make something true by just saying it’s true. Also your attitude is super toxic. You’re calling people who don’t value the same things you do, “clueless”. You don’t really get to bullshit people on HN — you can be super smart and skilled in your field, you’ll far too often come across people with vastly more experience than you. I invite you to think about that. Again, matrix is great, and I see it as the future of messaging. But it’s absolutely not the “present” of messaging; it’s years behind telegram, and the UX of most clients including the more popular ones is garbage.
        fartcannon 4y ago
        Its not years behind. That's a lie. In fact Id say it's ahead because you don't need to use a phone number (huge liability), you can choose to use e2e if you want and theyre not storing your data in plaintext! Oh and all of matrix is totally open source! Wow. That's how you know you can trust it. If they decide to pull a WhatsApp and move to Facebook, you can just fork and get on with your life. I like that the telegram client is open, but the sever isn't. Which means I don't really trust them. Same problem as Signal.
        jonathantf2 4y ago
        Just because it's open source doesn't mean I can trust it, I don't have the time to audit the code myself. Being open source is not a feature.
        fartcannon 4y ago
        Yes it is, because you can. Just because you personally wont doesn't remove it as a feature.
  - pizza234 4y ago
    I use Discord for public communications and I don't mind plaintext storage at all - on the contrary, on public chats, I personally value public history. The last time I've used Matrix actually, usability was a disaster; took me a while to figure out even just how to login, and that wasn't the only problem.
    - fartcannon 4y ago
      The login screen was too complicated for you, eh?
      - pizza234 4y ago
        I was asked to login concurrently from two different browsers, every time I wanted to login. It was a very puzzling experience, and took me a while to figure it out, because it was something I've never experienced before in chat systems, and it wasn't spelled clearly, like "you must login from two browsers", in order to compensate for the unusualness. The UX of communicating with other users was problematic as well. I've tried to establish communications with a certain user, and I have no idea if I succeeded or not (likely not); two separate communications "channels" (I don't know the terminology) were opened with the same user, which is perplexing, since again, this is something I've never experienced before. I think those two weren't even the only problems I've had.
        fartcannon 4y ago
        Did you file a bug? That doesn't happen. Normally you log in. And that's it. On a new device, you can (optionally) verify your account to see previous encrypted comversations. But you don't have to do that. As for the chat rooms, they work exactly like Discord, which is exactly like every chat client with chat rooms has since the dawn of IRC. You can send a message to one person, or you can join a room and message everyone at the same time. Easy peasy!
      - seizethegdgap 4y ago
        Do you remember using Riot pre-cross signing? If you don't, then you have no idea how bad it used to be.
  - AnonymousPlanet 4y ago
    So is PGP...
    - fartcannon 4y ago
      PGP is rad.
tiagod 4y ago
Telegram is on another level, honestly. You can do anything from a bash script with curl.
- fartcannon 4y ago
  That is cool. I love FOSS with good APIs. It's too bad the sever is closed. Makes it hard for me to trust.

"it’s the only popular messenger that is actually easy to programmatically interact with." Let me introduce you to Matrix SDKs https://matrix.org/sdks/ https://matrix.org/sdks/

scrollaway 4y ago

Keyword is popular. I’m a proponent of matrix, but it’s absolutely not popular.

fartcannon 4y ago
It's very popular with people who value not having their data stored in plaintext.
- scrollaway 4y ago
  Do you know how much comments like that help Matrix gain a foothold in the closed source messaging space? Not all all, that’s how much. Seriously. Again, huge proponent and financial supporter of matrix efforts here; I think they do an a amazing job. But comments like yours are detrimental to what they do.
  - fartcannon 4y ago
    Nah, they do help the folks who don't know about it.
- jonathantf2 4y ago
  People don't value that, they value a good UX and the fact that all of their contacts have the app. Matrix has neither of these.
  - fartcannon 4y ago
    People do value that, and they also value a great UX, which Matrix also has. Additionally, matrix, doesn't forcefully associate your plaintext account with your phone number! People with a clue value that.
    - scrollaway 4y ago
      700,000,000 users disagree with your statements. You can’t make something true by just saying it’s true. Also your attitude is super toxic. You’re calling people who don’t value the same things you do, “clueless”. You don’t really get to bullshit people on HN — you can be super smart and skilled in your field, you’ll far too often come across people with vastly more experience than you. I invite you to think about that. Again, matrix is great, and I see it as the future of messaging. But it’s absolutely not the “present” of messaging; it’s years behind telegram, and the UX of most clients including the more popular ones is garbage.
      - fartcannon 4y ago
        Its not years behind. That's a lie. In fact Id say it's ahead because you don't need to use a phone number (huge liability), you can choose to use e2e if you want and theyre not storing your data in plaintext! Oh and all of matrix is totally open source! Wow. That's how you know you can trust it. If they decide to pull a WhatsApp and move to Facebook, you can just fork and get on with your life. I like that the telegram client is open, but the sever isn't. Which means I don't really trust them. Same problem as Signal.
        jonathantf2 4y ago
        Just because it's open source doesn't mean I can trust it, I don't have the time to audit the code myself. Being open source is not a feature.
        fartcannon 4y ago
        Yes it is, because you can. Just because you personally wont doesn't remove it as a feature.
- pizza234 4y ago
  I use Discord for public communications and I don't mind plaintext storage at all - on the contrary, on public chats, I personally value public history. The last time I've used Matrix actually, usability was a disaster; took me a while to figure out even just how to login, and that wasn't the only problem.
  - fartcannon 4y ago
    The login screen was too complicated for you, eh?
    - pizza234 4y ago
      I was asked to login concurrently from two different browsers, every time I wanted to login. It was a very puzzling experience, and took me a while to figure it out, because it was something I've never experienced before in chat systems, and it wasn't spelled clearly, like "you must login from two browsers", in order to compensate for the unusualness. The UX of communicating with other users was problematic as well. I've tried to establish communications with a certain user, and I have no idea if I succeeded or not (likely not); two separate communications "channels" (I don't know the terminology) were opened with the same user, which is perplexing, since again, this is something I've never experienced before. I think those two weren't even the only problems I've had.
      - fartcannon 4y ago
        Did you file a bug? That doesn't happen. Normally you log in. And that's it. On a new device, you can (optionally) verify your account to see previous encrypted comversations. But you don't have to do that. As for the chat rooms, they work exactly like Discord, which is exactly like every chat client with chat rooms has since the dawn of IRC. You can send a message to one person, or you can join a room and message everyone at the same time. Easy peasy!
    - seizethegdgap 4y ago
      Do you remember using Riot pre-cross signing? If you don't, then you have no idea how bad it used to be.
- AnonymousPlanet 4y ago
  So is PGP...
  - fartcannon 4y ago
    PGP is rad.

tiagod 4y ago

Telegram is on another level, honestly. You can do anything from a bash script with curl.

fartcannon 4y ago
That is cool. I love FOSS with good APIs. It's too bad the sever is closed. Makes it hard for me to trust.