7 ms·

You’re trying to treat cancer with bandaids

by honkler 4y ago

notnaut 4y ago
If there were a bandaid cure for cancer, we’d use it.
- blowski 4y ago
  Absolutely. But there isn't a bandaid for either cancer or obesity.
  - throwaway09223 4y ago
    Of course there isn't. That's why we're still looking for one. Looking for easy solutions is very understandable, re: the original topic.
    - jasonhansel 4y ago
      +1. People seem to think that, since they had to suffer through diet and exercise to lose weight, everyone else should have to suffer equally; for some reason people think it's "unfair" to lose weight through e.g. medications. This makes no sense, and it isn't consistent with how we treat any other illness.
      - sinsterizme 4y ago
        Being fat isn’t an illness in the same sense as we normally define it. It’s a conscious decision making process that is self-inflicted. It’s lazy to turn to medication just because the real method is difficult. Most medication has side effects, deal with the root issue instead
        autoexec 4y ago
        > It’s a conscious decision making process that is self-inflicted. I doubt very many people make a deliberate conscious decision to gain excessive amounts of weight, especially if they're dieting. You can argue that people should be making a conscious decision to navigate the labyrinth of data, misinformation, scammers, etc to try to learn what they actually need to do to lose weight successfully but I think most people just eat what they like best from what's available when they feel like eating and are more often than not surprised at the weight they gain. Even animals in research labs on strictly controlled diets who have had the same food intake and lifestyle for decades have been unexpectedly gaining weight. I think it's safe to say that there's a lot more going on with weight gain than lazy people making a conscious decision to be fat and a lot more involved in losing that weight. Anyone can starve themselves, but loosing weight while staying healthy isn't always so simple. Changing a person's habits and lifestyles aren't always simple either. If medications can help, people should absolutely use them.
        jasonhansel 4y ago
        1. By your logic, is type 2 diabetes also not an illness, since it's caused by excess sugar consumption? 2. Why is it wrong to solve problems the easy way? Why should people have to follow the "difficult" path of dieting if an easier method exists? That's not being lazy, it's being smart by avoiding unnecessary effort. 3. Many diets also have side effects (e.g. hunger, fatigue). But regardless, if people would rather experience side effects from medication than go through the difficult experience of dieting, why is that wrong?
        sinsterizme 4y ago
        1. Ok sorry, I’m not trying to rigorously define what an illness is, I’m just saying obesity is categorically different because it’s self inflicted and reversible 2. It isn’t wrong in every situation, just in this particular one the motivating factor is lack of willpower, prioritization and education. There isn’t an “easy way” as of right now. If one comes along it will also likely carry side effects 3. Its usually ill-informed because the difficulty of dieting is a known one and steps can be taken to alleviate or bypass these issues. Usually medication with outsized effects have proportional side-effects. And we don’t always know what they are. I don’t leave out the possibility that someone could invent a pill that causes huge weight loss with little side-effects, but I would bet a lot of money against it
        throwaway09223 4y ago
        "I’m just saying obesity is categorically different because it’s self inflicted and reversible" I encourage you to examine the implicit judgement and bias within this statement. When you say "self inflicted," are you suggesting that people should simply exercise willpower and change their behaviors? What if they cannot, either because they do not know how, or because there are related psychological problems intersecting with their weight issues? Is depression self-inflicted? What about depressive eating patterns, resulting in weight gain? We know that being overweight is almost universally disliked. We know that most people expend great amounts of time and money on ineffective solutions. Saying "it's self inflicted" ignores that most overweight people are not able to solve their eating disorder. It's inaccurate, in exactly the same way that it would be inaccurate to dismiss depression as "self-inflicted." Food is tied to very deep motivators within the human brain. Empirically we can very clearly see that most people are not capable of resolving these issues on their own. Generally speaking, it's a symptom of a psychological disorder.
  - effingwewt 4y ago
    We have band-aids for both. Both cancer and weight loss are filled to the brim with pills that do absolutely nothing. Thousands of expensive treatments, no cure (for cancer at least, I believe the weight loss pill industry os 100% fraudulent). Saw some pill adverts the other day at a restaurant as the tv played. The pill promised to help lose weight without diet or exercise. At the end of the commercial it was explicitly stated it workwd if used in conjunction with diet and exercise. This is what the US has become.
    - Gordonjcp 4y ago
      > Thousands of expensive treatments, no cure (for cancer at least, Immunotherapy is pretty damn close to a cure, with very few side-effects. It costs a couple of hundred quid a session to administer, which of course costs the patient nothing.
      - effingwewt 4y ago
        Not in the US. Here it's almost certainly a death sentence, and unless you are rich it will most certainly bankrupt your entire family.
        CodeSgt 4y ago
        What on earth are you on about? The US has the highest rates of cancer survival in the world.
        effingwewt 4y ago
        Edit on top because this is very close to me and makesy blood boil. Right now this is what's going on. My best friend John lives with his grandmother Connie who raised him. Last November, so 7+months now, she found out she has lung cancer. Doesn't smoke, but that doesn't matter. Connie is the sweetest woman and reminds me of my Grandma. Not a mean bone in her body, would do anything for you. She had to wait ~4 months to get the referral from her doctor. Once she had that she could begin oncology. 3 months later she still can't get an appointment. Connie has tried and called repeatedly, as has John and his other family members. They are broken watching her waste away, and she can't even get in to begin assessment much less treatment. So tired of people with statistics which can be and are gamed, or people with money and insurance assuming everyone does. Connie is going to die, she knows this, and her last few months are nothing but terror and frustration and sadness all around. Original comment+My 3 family members who died to cancer. Being in the cancer wards and oncology centers and getting to know lots of patients. This is the reality. If you have money and insurance cancer will break you. If you have nothing it is almost a guaranteed death sentence. But hey, you've got a statistic!

You’re trying to treat cancer with bandaids

notnaut 4y ago

If there were a bandaid cure for cancer, we’d use it.

blowski 4y ago
Absolutely. But there isn't a bandaid for either cancer or obesity.
- throwaway09223 4y ago
  Of course there isn't. That's why we're still looking for one. Looking for easy solutions is very understandable, re: the original topic.
  - jasonhansel 4y ago
    +1. People seem to think that, since they had to suffer through diet and exercise to lose weight, everyone else should have to suffer equally; for some reason people think it's "unfair" to lose weight through e.g. medications. This makes no sense, and it isn't consistent with how we treat any other illness.
    - sinsterizme 4y ago
      Being fat isn’t an illness in the same sense as we normally define it. It’s a conscious decision making process that is self-inflicted. It’s lazy to turn to medication just because the real method is difficult. Most medication has side effects, deal with the root issue instead
      - autoexec 4y ago
        > It’s a conscious decision making process that is self-inflicted. I doubt very many people make a deliberate conscious decision to gain excessive amounts of weight, especially if they're dieting. You can argue that people should be making a conscious decision to navigate the labyrinth of data, misinformation, scammers, etc to try to learn what they actually need to do to lose weight successfully but I think most people just eat what they like best from what's available when they feel like eating and are more often than not surprised at the weight they gain. Even animals in research labs on strictly controlled diets who have had the same food intake and lifestyle for decades have been unexpectedly gaining weight. I think it's safe to say that there's a lot more going on with weight gain than lazy people making a conscious decision to be fat and a lot more involved in losing that weight. Anyone can starve themselves, but loosing weight while staying healthy isn't always so simple. Changing a person's habits and lifestyles aren't always simple either. If medications can help, people should absolutely use them.
      - jasonhansel 4y ago
        1. By your logic, is type 2 diabetes also not an illness, since it's caused by excess sugar consumption? 2. Why is it wrong to solve problems the easy way? Why should people have to follow the "difficult" path of dieting if an easier method exists? That's not being lazy, it's being smart by avoiding unnecessary effort. 3. Many diets also have side effects (e.g. hunger, fatigue). But regardless, if people would rather experience side effects from medication than go through the difficult experience of dieting, why is that wrong?
        sinsterizme 4y ago
        1. Ok sorry, I’m not trying to rigorously define what an illness is, I’m just saying obesity is categorically different because it’s self inflicted and reversible 2. It isn’t wrong in every situation, just in this particular one the motivating factor is lack of willpower, prioritization and education. There isn’t an “easy way” as of right now. If one comes along it will also likely carry side effects 3. Its usually ill-informed because the difficulty of dieting is a known one and steps can be taken to alleviate or bypass these issues. Usually medication with outsized effects have proportional side-effects. And we don’t always know what they are. I don’t leave out the possibility that someone could invent a pill that causes huge weight loss with little side-effects, but I would bet a lot of money against it
        throwaway09223 4y ago
        "I’m just saying obesity is categorically different because it’s self inflicted and reversible" I encourage you to examine the implicit judgement and bias within this statement. When you say "self inflicted," are you suggesting that people should simply exercise willpower and change their behaviors? What if they cannot, either because they do not know how, or because there are related psychological problems intersecting with their weight issues? Is depression self-inflicted? What about depressive eating patterns, resulting in weight gain? We know that being overweight is almost universally disliked. We know that most people expend great amounts of time and money on ineffective solutions. Saying "it's self inflicted" ignores that most overweight people are not able to solve their eating disorder. It's inaccurate, in exactly the same way that it would be inaccurate to dismiss depression as "self-inflicted." Food is tied to very deep motivators within the human brain. Empirically we can very clearly see that most people are not capable of resolving these issues on their own. Generally speaking, it's a symptom of a psychological disorder.
- effingwewt 4y ago
  We have band-aids for both. Both cancer and weight loss are filled to the brim with pills that do absolutely nothing. Thousands of expensive treatments, no cure (for cancer at least, I believe the weight loss pill industry os 100% fraudulent). Saw some pill adverts the other day at a restaurant as the tv played. The pill promised to help lose weight without diet or exercise. At the end of the commercial it was explicitly stated it workwd if used in conjunction with diet and exercise. This is what the US has become.
  - Gordonjcp 4y ago
    > Thousands of expensive treatments, no cure (for cancer at least, Immunotherapy is pretty damn close to a cure, with very few side-effects. It costs a couple of hundred quid a session to administer, which of course costs the patient nothing.
    - effingwewt 4y ago
      Not in the US. Here it's almost certainly a death sentence, and unless you are rich it will most certainly bankrupt your entire family.
      - CodeSgt 4y ago
        What on earth are you on about? The US has the highest rates of cancer survival in the world.
        effingwewt 4y ago
        Edit on top because this is very close to me and makesy blood boil. Right now this is what's going on. My best friend John lives with his grandmother Connie who raised him. Last November, so 7+months now, she found out she has lung cancer. Doesn't smoke, but that doesn't matter. Connie is the sweetest woman and reminds me of my Grandma. Not a mean bone in her body, would do anything for you. She had to wait ~4 months to get the referral from her doctor. Once she had that she could begin oncology. 3 months later she still can't get an appointment. Connie has tried and called repeatedly, as has John and his other family members. They are broken watching her waste away, and she can't even get in to begin assessment much less treatment. So tired of people with statistics which can be and are gamed, or people with money and insurance assuming everyone does. Connie is going to die, she knows this, and her last few months are nothing but terror and frustration and sadness all around. Original comment+My 3 family members who died to cancer. Being in the cancer wards and oncology centers and getting to know lots of patients. This is the reality. If you have money and insurance cancer will break you. If you have nothing it is almost a guaranteed death sentence. But hey, you've got a statistic!