5 ms·

Sorry, I don't get it. What issues do they hope to resolve or working conditions to get better by unionizing? Last time I went into our local Apple store here

by rtp4me 4y ago

Sorry, I don't get it. What issues do they hope to resolve or working conditions to get better by unionizing? Last time I went into our local Apple store here in Raleigh, the place was packed with workers that were friendly, responsive, and truly wanted to help you. None of them seemed overworked, disgruntled, or angry. In fact, one mentioned how much they like working there (education benefits, etc). What am I missing?

petee 4y ago
That 'face' is what is required of the job, similar to when a waiter smiles and makes you feel important even though they are drowning in debt. That said, I'm sure some are happy there. But the fact they wanted to unionize is a sign that not all is as it seems. Unions protect workers against wrongful firing, intimidation by management, and number of other situations the average person would find unacceptable, but otherwise had no recourse. Note, some employers actually have good relationships with their unions; it pretty much comes down to how much a company cares about its workers, as people who are primarily trying to make a living.
- rtp4me 4y ago
  Unless I am mistaken, workers can file a grievance with the US Dept of Labor or their state Attorney General office. Are you saying this is not true?
  - ddingus 4y ago
    Yes, that is true. However, doing that often makes little sense, unless one plans on looking for new work.
throw_m239339 4y ago
> the place was packed with workers that were friendly, responsive, and truly wanted to help you Ignoring the union question, they are paid to smile at you, doesn't mean they all are happy to work there in anyway. They are strongly encouraged to be "friendly, responsive" and appear "to truly want to help you" by management, it's an act. I have hard time believing anybody would think most Apple store employees genuinely feel that way when they have to deal with douche bag clients and suffer terrible management all day long. Source is myself.
- rtp4me 4y ago
  So, you have specifically worked at an Apple store? Please share your experience.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
givemeethekeys 4y ago
A union would give them collective bargaining to negotiate for more than what they're getting now - like a bigger raise to keep up with inflation. Not long ago a full-time job was enough to support a family.
xg15 4y ago
I honestly don't get why you wouldn't want to form a union. Why voluntarily put yourself into a massively worse position when negotiating wages and working conditions with your employer? This goes especially for frontline or storage workers or anyone else who is frequently seen by management as "easily replaceable".
- yucky 4y ago
  >I honestly don't get why you wouldn't want to form a union. The most common answer to this is that unions protect the worst employees, and tends to equalize wages so that the better employees are paid the same as the worst. If you're more talented, why should you expect equal pay to everyone else? Unions reward mediocrity. They can (and have) certainly done good as well. But this is the most common critique of unions.
  - xg15 4y ago
    Ah, that makes sense - though I wonder who usually is making that criticism. At least, I don't see why a union couldn't negotiate a base pay that still leaves room for bonuses if certain employees are particularly high-performing. Unions have an incentive for the company to be healthy and profitable - just not at the expense of the workers. Also, "talented" seems very vague to me. Of course everyone would like to be exceptionally talented and be placed above the others, but who in the end decides of you are talented or not and on which criteria? This seems a bit like the "temporarily embarrassed millionaires" situation, where you can be tempted to give up security in the present for some idealized but highly uncertain future.
    - yucky 4y ago
      >Also, "talented" seems very vague to me. The fact is, there are a ton of shitty employees. Anybody who has ever worked with others, knows that. In a union environment, those people are paid the same. That naturally grates on a lot of people. If you work with someone who does the same job as you, but poorly...you would rightfully expect to be paid more. I don't want this to come off as me saying unions are shit, but the question was asked why would people ever not support unions and that's generally why.

by rtp4me 4y ago

petee 4y ago

That 'face' is what is required of the job, similar to when a waiter smiles and makes you feel important even though they are drowning in debt. That said, I'm sure some are happy there. But the fact they wanted to unionize is a sign that not all is as it seems. Unions protect workers against wrongful firing, intimidation by management, and number of other situations the average person would find unacceptable, but otherwise had no recourse. Note, some employers actually have good relationships with their unions; it pretty much comes down to how much a company cares about its workers, as people who are primarily trying to make a living.

rtp4me 4y ago
Unless I am mistaken, workers can file a grievance with the US Dept of Labor or their state Attorney General office. Are you saying this is not true?
- ddingus 4y ago
  Yes, that is true. However, doing that often makes little sense, unless one plans on looking for new work.

throw_m239339 4y ago

> the place was packed with workers that were friendly, responsive, and truly wanted to help you Ignoring the union question, they are paid to smile at you, doesn't mean they all are happy to work there in anyway. They are strongly encouraged to be "friendly, responsive" and appear "to truly want to help you" by management, it's an act. I have hard time believing anybody would think most Apple store employees genuinely feel that way when they have to deal with douche bag clients and suffer terrible management all day long. Source is myself.

rtp4me 4y ago
So, you have specifically worked at an Apple store? Please share your experience.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]

givemeethekeys 4y ago

A union would give them collective bargaining to negotiate for more than what they're getting now - like a bigger raise to keep up with inflation. Not long ago a full-time job was enough to support a family.

xg15 4y ago

I honestly don't get why you wouldn't want to form a union. Why voluntarily put yourself into a massively worse position when negotiating wages and working conditions with your employer? This goes especially for frontline or storage workers or anyone else who is frequently seen by management as "easily replaceable".

yucky 4y ago
>I honestly don't get why you wouldn't want to form a union. The most common answer to this is that unions protect the worst employees, and tends to equalize wages so that the better employees are paid the same as the worst. If you're more talented, why should you expect equal pay to everyone else? Unions reward mediocrity. They can (and have) certainly done good as well. But this is the most common critique of unions.
- xg15 4y ago
  Ah, that makes sense - though I wonder who usually is making that criticism. At least, I don't see why a union couldn't negotiate a base pay that still leaves room for bonuses if certain employees are particularly high-performing. Unions have an incentive for the company to be healthy and profitable - just not at the expense of the workers. Also, "talented" seems very vague to me. Of course everyone would like to be exceptionally talented and be placed above the others, but who in the end decides of you are talented or not and on which criteria? This seems a bit like the "temporarily embarrassed millionaires" situation, where you can be tempted to give up security in the present for some idealized but highly uncertain future.
  - yucky 4y ago
    >Also, "talented" seems very vague to me. The fact is, there are a ton of shitty employees. Anybody who has ever worked with others, knows that. In a union environment, those people are paid the same. That naturally grates on a lot of people. If you work with someone who does the same job as you, but poorly...you would rightfully expect to be paid more. I don't want this to come off as me saying unions are shit, but the question was asked why would people ever not support unions and that's generally why.