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I had always wondered if mining had been profitable at all, ever, except for the very beginning. I feel like being a late entrant into this required huge fixed

I had always wondered if mining had been profitable at all, ever, except for the very beginning. I feel like being a late entrant into this required huge fixed costs, and this was back in 2014 or so. Only through joining a huge mining pool or staking pool would the numbers make some sense.

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midasuni 4y ago
I would guess the profitability would be linked to the cost of electricity. Many counties have subsidised power (1c/kWh), some are naturally cheap (iceland), and some people steal electricity (some weed farms) Sure you won’t make money if you are lying 35c/kWh, but bitcoin could be seen as a way of exporting abundant renewable electricity from isolated areas.
- DonHopkins 4y ago
  Bitcoin should be seen as a way of exporting cheap low quality dirty sulfuric coal and massive amounts of CO2 and carcinogens from remote unregulated regions through the atmosphere to the rest of the world.
  - kzrdude 4y ago
    Heavy industry does the same kind of thing, so it's not just bitcoin. For example: heavy industry that's located in Mexico instead of U.S for environmental regulation reasons.
    - formerkrogemp 4y ago
      At least the heavy industry is fxkcing doing something.
    - DonHopkins 4y ago
      As you already know quite well, heavy industry produces useful products and jobs, and is not a get-rich-quick pyramid scheme. Take a step back and look at what you're doing: lamely attempting to justify and carry the water for Bitcoin's horrible energy waste and pollution, when you already know quite well what the counterarguments to your ridiculous shilling and apologetic whataboutism arguments are. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism Your arguments have been thoroughly and widely debunked already, in glorious detail, and claiming you don't have enough time in your busy online shilling and gambling schedule to educate yourself by watching a factually accurate video about reality is a cop-out that shows you're afraid to look at the facts because you know you're wrong. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQ_xWvX1n9g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQ_xWvX1n9g Surely you don't actually believe what you're saying, that factories are as useless as bitcoin, and already know why that is an invalid argument, so I should not have to remind you. Or do you really not give a flying fuck about the environment or public health? Then say so. I'm bending over backwards trying to give you the benefit of the doubt that you're not that dumb to believe your own argument that heavy industry justifies bitcoin, so if you've simply lost a lot of money gambling on cryptocurrencies and you're just trying to trick other suckers into covering for your unforced mistakes, then just admit it and stop pretending.
      - kzrdude 4y ago
        > Take a step back and look at what you're doing: lamely attempting to justify and carry the water for Bitcoin's horrible energy waste and pollution I think I'm not doing that. I'm just part of a conversation and my goal is not to make excuses for Bitcoin. Broadening the view and mentioning other facts doesn't mean that I make excuses for something else. I just don't want to argue pointlessly about this. I'm already in the "ban bitcoin" camp, so anything you try to say to convince me is also time wasted :) I would advise, do more conversation and less argumentation on the forums
        DonHopkins 4y ago
        Then why do you think factories are as useless as bitcoin, if you think bitcoin should be banned, and why are you using whataboutism as an argument? Do you also want to ban heavy industry? You're the one who is throwing whataboutism arguments around. So don't say you don't want to have an argument, after you started with an invalid whataboutism argument and an inconsistent position, in defense of another invalid argument that bitcoin is "a way of exporting abundant renewable electricity from isolated areas". In case you haven't been paying attention for the past few years, of if you're only pretending to be incredulous, your argument and the argument you're defending are regularly made by bitcoin shills, and always shot down by the facts because they make no sense. If you'd watch Line Goes Up or read any other comprehensive analysis critical of cryptocurrencies, you'd already know quit well how terribly bad and insincere your whataboutsim argument and the "exporting abundant renewable electricity" arguments you're defending are, and how thoroughly they have already been debunked, and how tired the HN community is of hearing them mindlessly parroted again and again. You're not the first person to think of using whataboutism to justify bitcoin.
- everyone 4y ago
  "but bitcoin could be seen as a way of exporting abundant renewable electricity from isolated areas." The electricity is simply wasted, not exported. It cannot be used to do work anymore.
  - midasuni 4y ago
    No, and generating green hydrogen would be far more useful, but the only thing I can contort out of the argument would be it would encourage capital investment in more renewable generation which would then mean the price per kWh would reduce once the cancer of Bitcoin mining ends.

deleted 4y ago

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midasuni 4y ago

I would guess the profitability would be linked to the cost of electricity. Many counties have subsidised power (1c/kWh), some are naturally cheap (iceland), and some people steal electricity (some weed farms) Sure you won’t make money if you are lying 35c/kWh, but bitcoin could be seen as a way of exporting abundant renewable electricity from isolated areas.

DonHopkins 4y ago
Bitcoin should be seen as a way of exporting cheap low quality dirty sulfuric coal and massive amounts of CO2 and carcinogens from remote unregulated regions through the atmosphere to the rest of the world.
- kzrdude 4y ago
  Heavy industry does the same kind of thing, so it's not just bitcoin. For example: heavy industry that's located in Mexico instead of U.S for environmental regulation reasons.
  - formerkrogemp 4y ago
    At least the heavy industry is fxkcing doing something.
  - DonHopkins 4y ago
    As you already know quite well, heavy industry produces useful products and jobs, and is not a get-rich-quick pyramid scheme. Take a step back and look at what you're doing: lamely attempting to justify and carry the water for Bitcoin's horrible energy waste and pollution, when you already know quite well what the counterarguments to your ridiculous shilling and apologetic whataboutism arguments are. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism Your arguments have been thoroughly and widely debunked already, in glorious detail, and claiming you don't have enough time in your busy online shilling and gambling schedule to educate yourself by watching a factually accurate video about reality is a cop-out that shows you're afraid to look at the facts because you know you're wrong. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQ_xWvX1n9g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQ_xWvX1n9g Surely you don't actually believe what you're saying, that factories are as useless as bitcoin, and already know why that is an invalid argument, so I should not have to remind you. Or do you really not give a flying fuck about the environment or public health? Then say so. I'm bending over backwards trying to give you the benefit of the doubt that you're not that dumb to believe your own argument that heavy industry justifies bitcoin, so if you've simply lost a lot of money gambling on cryptocurrencies and you're just trying to trick other suckers into covering for your unforced mistakes, then just admit it and stop pretending.
    - kzrdude 4y ago
      > Take a step back and look at what you're doing: lamely attempting to justify and carry the water for Bitcoin's horrible energy waste and pollution I think I'm not doing that. I'm just part of a conversation and my goal is not to make excuses for Bitcoin. Broadening the view and mentioning other facts doesn't mean that I make excuses for something else. I just don't want to argue pointlessly about this. I'm already in the "ban bitcoin" camp, so anything you try to say to convince me is also time wasted :) I would advise, do more conversation and less argumentation on the forums
      - DonHopkins 4y ago
        Then why do you think factories are as useless as bitcoin, if you think bitcoin should be banned, and why are you using whataboutism as an argument? Do you also want to ban heavy industry? You're the one who is throwing whataboutism arguments around. So don't say you don't want to have an argument, after you started with an invalid whataboutism argument and an inconsistent position, in defense of another invalid argument that bitcoin is "a way of exporting abundant renewable electricity from isolated areas". In case you haven't been paying attention for the past few years, of if you're only pretending to be incredulous, your argument and the argument you're defending are regularly made by bitcoin shills, and always shot down by the facts because they make no sense. If you'd watch Line Goes Up or read any other comprehensive analysis critical of cryptocurrencies, you'd already know quit well how terribly bad and insincere your whataboutsim argument and the "exporting abundant renewable electricity" arguments you're defending are, and how thoroughly they have already been debunked, and how tired the HN community is of hearing them mindlessly parroted again and again. You're not the first person to think of using whataboutism to justify bitcoin.
everyone 4y ago
"but bitcoin could be seen as a way of exporting abundant renewable electricity from isolated areas." The electricity is simply wasted, not exported. It cannot be used to do work anymore.
- midasuni 4y ago
  No, and generating green hydrogen would be far more useful, but the only thing I can contort out of the argument would be it would encourage capital investment in more renewable generation which would then mean the price per kWh would reduce once the cancer of Bitcoin mining ends.