5 ms·

I'd love to eat plants a lot. Just turns out they give me depression.(takes about 4 days after ingestion) There is something called bio-availability and there

I'd love to eat plants a lot. Just turns out they give me depression.(takes about 4 days after ingestion) There is something called bio-availability and there are nutrients in meat that you don't ever get from plants. But it would be nice if there were public pig pens where you could recycle food waste into bacon. Transportation is the biggest co2 producer...

aszantu 4y ago
since there were a few comments, telling me it's impossible that what I experience happens. Background: I've seen a lot of violence in my childhood, lost my friends more than once through moving or switching schools, have been abused in school by a teacher and felt unwanted in general. Although I'm smart, I always was forgetful and felt stupid, took longer to understand things than others, one of these would be enough to give depression. for about 30 years I suffered depression, started when I was about seven up until roundabout 35 years old. I was only diagnosed with serious depression(suicidal ideation, woke up at night, thought someone evil is in my room, crying a lot, hopelessness, low energy, panic attacks, unable to hold down a job), adhd and some borderline schizoid spectrum in 2012, went to therapy, rehab, and emotion control training. In 2017 I left the latest rehab with doctors telling me there was no hope. Up until that point I was the person who would eat anything, didn't care, meat, fruit, carbs, sugary stuff. I love food! Sept 2017: In the forums Keto would pop up now and then, that was the last thing I hadn't tried the last 4 years so I thought I'd give it a shot. And within a week the depression cleared. And every time I told someone they told me, that it's not okay to eat that much meat, and food can't cause depression, and I should go back to eating "normal". Energy levels where higher than I'd ever known, my mood stabilized. My finances were down to the last penny, so I had to prioritize meat over everything else, someone mentioned zero carb. At that point I still ate dandelion (picked them in the streets, on lawns, in the surrounding fields) with lemmon juice, just to get in enough fat for the ketogenic diet. I decided to give it a shot. To my surprise, the panic attacks went down within a week, I stopped waking up at night and seeing things that weren't there. If this experience is placebo, I'm okay with it. No doctor has been able to explain it to me, I don't have any allergies to food, so it has to be something in the gut. I have a sibo-test sitting, but haven't done it yet. So now, roundabout 5 years later, I've been working since 2019, high performing in what I do, no needless crying, no energy crash, no suicidal ideation. I'm still forgetful, but that's okay. Baseline eating is 170 grams of fat/70 grams of protein, preferably organic, locally sourced beef, but I'll eat anything meat that comes my way. Over the years I've tested all kinds of greens and carbs. All kinds of seeds seem to give me hopelessness, while sugary fruit, tubers and processed carbs sap my energy and green veggies seem to give me the idea that someone is watching me. When I don't test for a few weeks, I'm stable and don't get any of these effects. There are some things I can eat, but even they seem to have a threshold. Currants, glazed onions, Coconut milk raspberries (A handful a week seems okay, more will trigger symptoms) artificial sweeteners - curious with these, they make me angry (again 4 days until it sets in)
albertgoeswoof 4y ago
You switched to a plant based diet and it gave you depression 4 days later? Or you only eat meat and tried eating fruit and veg with it? If it’s the latter, I don’t think it’s the plants causing the problem!
GeorgeBanica 4y ago
>there are nutrients in meat that you don't ever get from plants. I'm curious, what are some of those nutrients?
- pcthrowaway 4y ago
  Off the top of my head, DHA/EPA Omega 3s, Creatine, and Glucosamine aren't really found in plants. I think Choline and B12 are hard to get adequate amounts from plant sources as well. I think you can live OK without those (I'm vegan), but supplementing the above from non-animal sources is probably a good idea, or at least not a bad one.
  - myshpa 4y ago
    There is a lot of non-animal sources for that stuff. We don't need animals for production of dietary supplements. IMHO vegans need to supplement only B12, as we live in too sterile environments to get enought of it naturally, for other things sufficiently diverse diet should suffice. DHA/EPA Omega 3s - algae, seaweed, spirulina, flaxseed, chiaseeds, hempseeds, wallnuts, cruciferous vegetables (brussel sprouts) Creatine - spirulina, chives, edamame, ... (https://thedietauthority.com/best-sources-of-creatine-for-vegans/ https://thedietauthority.com/best-sources-of-creatine-for-ve...) Glucosamine - corn, wheat Choline - legumes B12 - bacteria, nutritional yeast, seaweed, mushrooms
    - cheese_goddess 4y ago
      Great way to eat if you live in a rich country, or, dunno, California, I guess. Rather than saying "vegan", why not be honest and just say "Silicon Valley diet"? "Spirulina", "seaweed", "edamame"... I guess I can enjoy my nutritional definiciencies then, eh? Because there's no spirulina, or edible seaweeds, or edamame within a boat trip of where I live. Btw: you can't get enough B12 from any of the sources you list. But who's afraid of B12 deficiency, when it's for a good cause, amirite?
      - myshpa 4y ago
myshpa 4y ago
> I'd love to eat plants a lot. Just turns out they give me depression.(takes about 4 days after ingestion) Eat a diverse low-fat, whole plant-based diet - if you don't how or what, find yourself a weekly vegan meal plan. Supplement with B12 and you'll be fine. Learn to cook, explore vegan meals/recipes from around the world, stay away from processed food. > There is something called bio-availability and there are nutrients in meat that you don't ever get from plants. That's a lie you've been told. Plants are enough (again, don't forget your B12 vegan supplements). > Transportation is the biggest co2 producer... Transport, processing, retail & packaging is a miniscule part in CO2 production compared to land use change & farming. [https://ychef.files.bbci.co.uk/1600x900/p0c41fcj.webp https://ychef.files.bbci.co.uk/1600x900/p0c41fcj.webp - Emissions (in kg CO2e) from the food supply chain – the climate impact of food miles is often a small proportion (Source: Our World in Data/Poore and Nemecek, Science, 2018), linked from ] [https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20220429-the-climate-bene https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20220429-the-climate-bene...]
- koide 4y ago
  It depends. Humans vary and, while you may thrive on a plant diet, you can't generalize your experience. There are people who have problems even supplementing B12. Others don't. You can't just tell those who have that they've been living a lie.
  - myshpa 4y ago
    I know that there are always exceptions and that some, i repeat some, will have problems on a plant diet. But it will be IMHO a miniscule percent/promile, not a majority. > there are nutrients in meat that you don't ever get from plants Plant-Based Diets Are Not Nutritionally Deficient https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3854817/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3854817/ "More than a half-century of creative marketing by the meat, dairy, egg, and fish industries has produced fears surrounding nonexistent deficiencies, which in clinical practice need no patient monitoring by physicians and dietitians"
    - koide 4y ago
cheese_goddess 4y ago
> I'd love to eat plants a lot. Just turns out they give me depression.(takes about 4 days after ingestion) I mean no offense, and I'm no vegan (ha ha no), but it sounds like you need a therapist more than you need a butcher. There is no way that eating plants gives you depression. It's even less likely that "it takes 4 days" for it to go off.

aszantu 4y ago

since there were a few comments, telling me it's impossible that what I experience happens. Background: I've seen a lot of violence in my childhood, lost my friends more than once through moving or switching schools, have been abused in school by a teacher and felt unwanted in general. Although I'm smart, I always was forgetful and felt stupid, took longer to understand things than others, one of these would be enough to give depression. for about 30 years I suffered depression, started when I was about seven up until roundabout 35 years old. I was only diagnosed with serious depression(suicidal ideation, woke up at night, thought someone evil is in my room, crying a lot, hopelessness, low energy, panic attacks, unable to hold down a job), adhd and some borderline schizoid spectrum in 2012, went to therapy, rehab, and emotion control training. In 2017 I left the latest rehab with doctors telling me there was no hope. Up until that point I was the person who would eat anything, didn't care, meat, fruit, carbs, sugary stuff. I love food! Sept 2017: In the forums Keto would pop up now and then, that was the last thing I hadn't tried the last 4 years so I thought I'd give it a shot. And within a week the depression cleared. And every time I told someone they told me, that it's not okay to eat that much meat, and food can't cause depression, and I should go back to eating "normal". Energy levels where higher than I'd ever known, my mood stabilized. My finances were down to the last penny, so I had to prioritize meat over everything else, someone mentioned zero carb. At that point I still ate dandelion (picked them in the streets, on lawns, in the surrounding fields) with lemmon juice, just to get in enough fat for the ketogenic diet. I decided to give it a shot. To my surprise, the panic attacks went down within a week, I stopped waking up at night and seeing things that weren't there. If this experience is placebo, I'm okay with it. No doctor has been able to explain it to me, I don't have any allergies to food, so it has to be something in the gut. I have a sibo-test sitting, but haven't done it yet. So now, roundabout 5 years later, I've been working since 2019, high performing in what I do, no needless crying, no energy crash, no suicidal ideation. I'm still forgetful, but that's okay. Baseline eating is 170 grams of fat/70 grams of protein, preferably organic, locally sourced beef, but I'll eat anything meat that comes my way. Over the years I've tested all kinds of greens and carbs. All kinds of seeds seem to give me hopelessness, while sugary fruit, tubers and processed carbs sap my energy and green veggies seem to give me the idea that someone is watching me. When I don't test for a few weeks, I'm stable and don't get any of these effects. There are some things I can eat, but even they seem to have a threshold. Currants, glazed onions, Coconut milk raspberries (A handful a week seems okay, more will trigger symptoms) artificial sweeteners - curious with these, they make me angry (again 4 days until it sets in)

albertgoeswoof 4y ago

You switched to a plant based diet and it gave you depression 4 days later? Or you only eat meat and tried eating fruit and veg with it? If it’s the latter, I don’t think it’s the plants causing the problem!

GeorgeBanica 4y ago

>there are nutrients in meat that you don't ever get from plants. I'm curious, what are some of those nutrients?

pcthrowaway 4y ago
Off the top of my head, DHA/EPA Omega 3s, Creatine, and Glucosamine aren't really found in plants. I think Choline and B12 are hard to get adequate amounts from plant sources as well. I think you can live OK without those (I'm vegan), but supplementing the above from non-animal sources is probably a good idea, or at least not a bad one.
- myshpa 4y ago
  There is a lot of non-animal sources for that stuff. We don't need animals for production of dietary supplements. IMHO vegans need to supplement only B12, as we live in too sterile environments to get enought of it naturally, for other things sufficiently diverse diet should suffice. DHA/EPA Omega 3s - algae, seaweed, spirulina, flaxseed, chiaseeds, hempseeds, wallnuts, cruciferous vegetables (brussel sprouts) Creatine - spirulina, chives, edamame, ... (https://thedietauthority.com/best-sources-of-creatine-for-vegans/ https://thedietauthority.com/best-sources-of-creatine-for-ve...) Glucosamine - corn, wheat Choline - legumes B12 - bacteria, nutritional yeast, seaweed, mushrooms
  - cheese_goddess 4y ago
    Great way to eat if you live in a rich country, or, dunno, California, I guess. Rather than saying "vegan", why not be honest and just say "Silicon Valley diet"? "Spirulina", "seaweed", "edamame"... I guess I can enjoy my nutritional definiciencies then, eh? Because there's no spirulina, or edible seaweeds, or edamame within a boat trip of where I live. Btw: you can't get enough B12 from any of the sources you list. But who's afraid of B12 deficiency, when it's for a good cause, amirite?
    - myshpa 4y ago

myshpa 4y ago

> I'd love to eat plants a lot. Just turns out they give me depression.(takes about 4 days after ingestion) Eat a diverse low-fat, whole plant-based diet - if you don't how or what, find yourself a weekly vegan meal plan. Supplement with B12 and you'll be fine. Learn to cook, explore vegan meals/recipes from around the world, stay away from processed food. > There is something called bio-availability and there are nutrients in meat that you don't ever get from plants. That's a lie you've been told. Plants are enough (again, don't forget your B12 vegan supplements). > Transportation is the biggest co2 producer... Transport, processing, retail & packaging is a miniscule part in CO2 production compared to land use change & farming. [https://ychef.files.bbci.co.uk/1600x900/p0c41fcj.webp https://ychef.files.bbci.co.uk/1600x900/p0c41fcj.webp - Emissions (in kg CO2e) from the food supply chain – the climate impact of food miles is often a small proportion (Source: Our World in Data/Poore and Nemecek, Science, 2018), linked from ] [https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20220429-the-climate-bene https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20220429-the-climate-bene...]

koide 4y ago
It depends. Humans vary and, while you may thrive on a plant diet, you can't generalize your experience. There are people who have problems even supplementing B12. Others don't. You can't just tell those who have that they've been living a lie.
- myshpa 4y ago
  I know that there are always exceptions and that some, i repeat some, will have problems on a plant diet. But it will be IMHO a miniscule percent/promile, not a majority. > there are nutrients in meat that you don't ever get from plants Plant-Based Diets Are Not Nutritionally Deficient https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3854817/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3854817/ "More than a half-century of creative marketing by the meat, dairy, egg, and fish industries has produced fears surrounding nonexistent deficiencies, which in clinical practice need no patient monitoring by physicians and dietitians"
  - koide 4y ago

cheese_goddess 4y ago

> I'd love to eat plants a lot. Just turns out they give me depression.(takes about 4 days after ingestion) I mean no offense, and I'm no vegan (ha ha no), but it sounds like you need a therapist more than you need a butcher. There is no way that eating plants gives you depression. It's even less likely that "it takes 4 days" for it to go off.