3 ms·

I'm currently an undergraduate, and I can't shake the feeling that I desperately want to go into academia. I think I truly want to, but just can't convince myse

I'm currently an undergraduate, and I can't shake the feeling that I desperately want to go into academia. I think I truly want to, but just can't convince myself that the relative financial situation and difficulty is worth it. Perhaps it's this doubt that's going to ensure that I don't do well, even if I make the jump into a graduate school.

mxwsn 4y ago
I was in your shoes (undergrad class of 2015). My PhD journey was way more isolating, cynicism-inducing, political, yet also more successful than I could have imagined. I now have a nice researcher job in industry that has lots of agency, is interesting, and I have no complaints on pay. Yet I also have come to understand that there's nothing special in the intellectual achievements one can have in science. The thought of challenging myself intellectually and striving to reach heights was appealing to me in undergrad. While it might be easier to think critically/scientifically in science vs other areas due to job descriptions, many people think scientifically in other areas with just as much intellectual rigor and insight and without any advanced degree.
- anonymousDan 4y ago
  Can I ask what company (especially if non-obvious, i.e. MSR, Google)? Currently debating leaving a faculty position for industry research.
  - mxwsn 4y ago
    I work on ML+bio/chem at Genentech. I interviewed someone who deferred their asst. professorship and I think we're likely to hire them.
thomasahle 4y ago
You can always start, and if upi don't like it after a year, leave. Most people I know, who did PhDs, knew at that point. Some chose to stay anyway for the sunk cost fallacy, or because they had a visa, but they probably shouldn't have. Personally I loved every day of doing a PhD (admittedly I did it in Europe, not the US) and I feel like it's allowed me to work on much more interesting stuff afterwards as well.
btrettel 4y ago
How good or bad a PhD is depends on the field. I think CS right now is probably a good field to get a PhD in, at least if in a subfield that will get you a job after graduation. I think that's probably the only place getting a PhD would be worthwhile (from a financial perspective), and it may not be that way for long. I've read that economics used to be a field that had good job prospects outside of academia after graduation, but more recently I've read that isn't the case any longer. I think the incentives in academia tend to lead to overproduction of PhDs in the long-term, as professors are incentivized to produce PhDs but there is no comparable incentive to help PhDs get jobs. Don't be fooled by "I'll write a recommendation letter for you" as that's probably not going to help you get a job. And I do know that NSF requires grant proposals to have a professional development plan, but the plans I've seen tend to be vague and frequently describe things that won't happen. Keep in mind that you don't need to be in academia to do research. Instead of getting a PhD, I think it would have been better for me to get a real job with real pay for a while, doing research on the side. At some point I'd feel comfortable to switch to a part-time job or stop working for a while so that I could dedicate more time to research. When I was a PhD student, only rarely was I able to give my full attention to my research. I've had a variety of funding: fellowship, grant, teaching assistant, and even self-paid. The only time I was able to focus on my research was when I paid my tuition myself. (When I was on a fellowship, I had classes to distract me.) Grant projects can be hit or miss: If you like the project, it can be good, but if you don't like the project, then it's just a poorly paid job. Teaching assistant positions can require a lot more hours than are implied, unfortunately, and some professors are jerks. If my attention is going to be divided, at least I could get paid decently for it. I do think that by doing research on the side, I would have spent less time on my research, but it still would have been a lot of time over the years.
- nequo 4y ago
  Can I ask what your subfield is? My impression, outside of CS, is that if you are in academia, you get 1/2 to 3/4 of your time to devote to research (if you get a non-adjunct job), but if you are in industry, you have to do a full-time job before you get to spend time on your research.
  - 4y ago
robotresearcher 4y ago
Remember that a career can span forty years. You have time to do more than one thing. Becoming a domain expert skilled at research and mentoring young people is not a bad way to start a career.
sn9 4y ago
If it's something you really want to do, there's no harm in trying it. You'll develop all sorts of skills that will serve you well in industry should you decide academia isn't for you. And the opportunity cost of not working in industry those few years will be a drop in the bucket in the long run.

mxwsn 4y ago

I was in your shoes (undergrad class of 2015). My PhD journey was way more isolating, cynicism-inducing, political, yet also more successful than I could have imagined. I now have a nice researcher job in industry that has lots of agency, is interesting, and I have no complaints on pay. Yet I also have come to understand that there's nothing special in the intellectual achievements one can have in science. The thought of challenging myself intellectually and striving to reach heights was appealing to me in undergrad. While it might be easier to think critically/scientifically in science vs other areas due to job descriptions, many people think scientifically in other areas with just as much intellectual rigor and insight and without any advanced degree.

anonymousDan 4y ago
Can I ask what company (especially if non-obvious, i.e. MSR, Google)? Currently debating leaving a faculty position for industry research.
- mxwsn 4y ago
  I work on ML+bio/chem at Genentech. I interviewed someone who deferred their asst. professorship and I think we're likely to hire them.

thomasahle 4y ago

You can always start, and if upi don't like it after a year, leave. Most people I know, who did PhDs, knew at that point. Some chose to stay anyway for the sunk cost fallacy, or because they had a visa, but they probably shouldn't have. Personally I loved every day of doing a PhD (admittedly I did it in Europe, not the US) and I feel like it's allowed me to work on much more interesting stuff afterwards as well.

btrettel 4y ago

How good or bad a PhD is depends on the field. I think CS right now is probably a good field to get a PhD in, at least if in a subfield that will get you a job after graduation. I think that's probably the only place getting a PhD would be worthwhile (from a financial perspective), and it may not be that way for long. I've read that economics used to be a field that had good job prospects outside of academia after graduation, but more recently I've read that isn't the case any longer. I think the incentives in academia tend to lead to overproduction of PhDs in the long-term, as professors are incentivized to produce PhDs but there is no comparable incentive to help PhDs get jobs. Don't be fooled by "I'll write a recommendation letter for you" as that's probably not going to help you get a job. And I do know that NSF requires grant proposals to have a professional development plan, but the plans I've seen tend to be vague and frequently describe things that won't happen. Keep in mind that you don't need to be in academia to do research. Instead of getting a PhD, I think it would have been better for me to get a real job with real pay for a while, doing research on the side. At some point I'd feel comfortable to switch to a part-time job or stop working for a while so that I could dedicate more time to research. When I was a PhD student, only rarely was I able to give my full attention to my research. I've had a variety of funding: fellowship, grant, teaching assistant, and even self-paid. The only time I was able to focus on my research was when I paid my tuition myself. (When I was on a fellowship, I had classes to distract me.) Grant projects can be hit or miss: If you like the project, it can be good, but if you don't like the project, then it's just a poorly paid job. Teaching assistant positions can require a lot more hours than are implied, unfortunately, and some professors are jerks. If my attention is going to be divided, at least I could get paid decently for it. I do think that by doing research on the side, I would have spent less time on my research, but it still would have been a lot of time over the years.

nequo 4y ago
Can I ask what your subfield is? My impression, outside of CS, is that if you are in academia, you get 1/2 to 3/4 of your time to devote to research (if you get a non-adjunct job), but if you are in industry, you have to do a full-time job before you get to spend time on your research.
- 4y ago

robotresearcher 4y ago

Remember that a career can span forty years. You have time to do more than one thing. Becoming a domain expert skilled at research and mentoring young people is not a bad way to start a career.

sn9 4y ago

If it's something you really want to do, there's no harm in trying it. You'll develop all sorts of skills that will serve you well in industry should you decide academia isn't for you. And the opportunity cost of not working in industry those few years will be a drop in the bucket in the long run.