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For what it's worth, there has been some progress on the language and the author has responded to past criticism. I've been following developments of the langu

by klyrs 4y ago

For what it's worth, there has been some progress on the language and the author has responded to past criticism. I've been following developments of the language for a few years now, and I'd love it if all the claims came to fruition. Since it's a work in progress, past criticism doesn't necessarily apply -- leaving me to wonder "is it not bullshit yet?" Since the author has a habit of overpromising and even declaring things finished before even starting on them, and newcomers might not know what to think, his claims warrant regular scrutiny. It appears that V is still for vapor.

amedvednikov 4y ago
> Since the author has a habit of overpromising and even declaring things finished before even starting on them Do you have any examples?
- klyrs 4y ago
  TFA has plenty. Don't let yourself get mired in fights on the orange site. Instead, spend the energy fixing bugs and you'll meet less criticism in the future.
  - Tozen 4y ago
    I think that V developers and contributors are well within their rights to address criticisms of their work by detractors. Additionally, the OP has ran away from engaging in debate about various errors and opinions from their review, in an apparent attempt to leave an arguably underhanded one-sided negative impression (which includes suggesting not to use). So we have a situation where the OP created a hit piece with no feedback from V developers or its community, and detractors are elaborating on it, that leaves few other public options to address it.
    - klyrs 4y ago
      OP made a good faith effort hoping to find a sweet and working language, and the current implementation fell short of its long-advertised promises and accomplishments. That you're calling it a "hit piece" is telling. Y'all are well within your rights to waste your time arguing. I'm just saying that it's a waste of time.
      - amedvednikov 4y ago
        Mostly all this post has is some type checker bugs that have already been fixed (of course the article will never be updated now that they're fixed) and using -prod for measuring compiler speed, when it's explicitly mentioned on the website it's for non optimized builds only. And nonsense like setting array length on creation is a terrible idea. Go with its `make([]int, 5)` must be a terrible scam language as well. If he had a good faith, he'd report these issues via GitHub, and they'd get fixed within a week. So, regarding your claim that I have "a habit of overpromising and even declaring things finished before even starting on them". Please, list them here. 1.2.3. Must be easy if there's a habit.
        klyrs 4y ago
        If the bugs are fixed, put 'em in your CI and blog about it. Taking my own advice here, I've got better things to do than argue with you.
        amedvednikov 4y ago
        So you're going to slander me, make a very strong accusation, call V (the work of hundreds of contributors) a "vapor", and when asked for a single proof you just say "I don't have time for this"? What a nice character you are.
        klyrs 4y ago
        I've been arguing on the internet longer than you've been alive. I don't claim to be nice, but here is a gift: in time, either you'll learn not to waste your time in this manner and let your results speak for themselves, or you'll fade away to insignificance. (here I am, insignificant, and breaking my own rule)
        amedvednikov 4y ago
        Again, you slander me and hundreds of contributors, make strong accusations without any proofs, and now you're saying some crap about being old and that's who you are. Like I said, it's already pretty clear what kind of character you are.
    - ylluminate 4y ago
      I believe I know who the OP is and it's a very sad situation of simple hurt feelings from largely misunderstanding. It's a sad situation actually, but such is life and differences of cultures and human interaction. I feel bad for the OP to have had to have felt so badly that they felt the necessity to post this hit piece vs trying to really address the issues that other community members have gathered from it as actual issues to resolve. So sad.
    - ModernMech 4y ago
      > I think that V developers and contributors are well within their rights to address criticisms of their work by detractors. Indeed you are, but realize that you are also ambassadors for your language, and engaging in petty language war nonsense on public forums doesn’t leave anyone looking great. That’s a problem for V moreso than your detractors, because you are the ones building a reputation for yourselves, while your detractors are relatively anonymous and fungible. They can act anyway they want and it won’t follow them around. On the other hand, everything said here by Vlangers will stick to V and will be brought up on the next thread. You don’t want the reputation of being fanboys who will descend on any thread about V and zealously argue about it for days. But that’s the reputation you’re building here, and it has nothing to do with the behavior or actions of anyone else. That’s something you are actively choosing to do, and it doesn’t make you or your community look good. Again, no one looks great in threads like these, but most people here aren’t building a reputation. V is building a reputation. What do the posts by Vlangers here say about V? It’s not exactly a shining advertisement for your community.
      - Tozen 4y ago
        Yeah, because V supporters should stay silent, and allow detractors free rein to say anything and continuously smear the language and its developers at will. Funny, I notice the supporters of other languages don't seem to follow such advice. They make strong defenses and advocate for the languages they like, anywhere and everywhere, including on even this thread. If anything, V supporters might want to be more vocal and show their support (which can be done in various ways), to counter what's going on. It doesn't work to stay quiet and let bullies keep slapping a person around. They incorrectly interpret it as a sign to continue.
        ModernMech 4y ago
        Listen, you do you. I’m just letting you know how you come across to others. Maybe you think you’re defending V here but you’re doing the language and community a grave disservice, IMO. Others have given the V community the same advice, and have been for years, so it’s not just me. But as long as you’re here on HN could you please at least follow this community’s guidelines? Several of your posts have been flagged for containing personal attacks, and accusations of bad faith and gaslighting are not well-received here. If you’re going to continue commenting, please just make your comments substantive. A strong defense of V would not include accusing others of bad faith because they didn’t file a bug report of GitHub.
  - amedvednikov 4y ago
    You made a very strong accusation. Please list the things that were declared finished before even starting on them.

by klyrs 4y ago

amedvednikov 4y ago

> Since the author has a habit of overpromising and even declaring things finished before even starting on them Do you have any examples?

klyrs 4y ago
TFA has plenty. Don't let yourself get mired in fights on the orange site. Instead, spend the energy fixing bugs and you'll meet less criticism in the future.
- Tozen 4y ago
  I think that V developers and contributors are well within their rights to address criticisms of their work by detractors. Additionally, the OP has ran away from engaging in debate about various errors and opinions from their review, in an apparent attempt to leave an arguably underhanded one-sided negative impression (which includes suggesting not to use). So we have a situation where the OP created a hit piece with no feedback from V developers or its community, and detractors are elaborating on it, that leaves few other public options to address it.
  - klyrs 4y ago
    OP made a good faith effort hoping to find a sweet and working language, and the current implementation fell short of its long-advertised promises and accomplishments. That you're calling it a "hit piece" is telling. Y'all are well within your rights to waste your time arguing. I'm just saying that it's a waste of time.
    - amedvednikov 4y ago
      Mostly all this post has is some type checker bugs that have already been fixed (of course the article will never be updated now that they're fixed) and using -prod for measuring compiler speed, when it's explicitly mentioned on the website it's for non optimized builds only. And nonsense like setting array length on creation is a terrible idea. Go with its `make([]int, 5)` must be a terrible scam language as well. If he had a good faith, he'd report these issues via GitHub, and they'd get fixed within a week. So, regarding your claim that I have "a habit of overpromising and even declaring things finished before even starting on them". Please, list them here. 1.2.3. Must be easy if there's a habit.
      - klyrs 4y ago
        If the bugs are fixed, put 'em in your CI and blog about it. Taking my own advice here, I've got better things to do than argue with you.
        amedvednikov 4y ago
        So you're going to slander me, make a very strong accusation, call V (the work of hundreds of contributors) a "vapor", and when asked for a single proof you just say "I don't have time for this"? What a nice character you are.
        klyrs 4y ago
        I've been arguing on the internet longer than you've been alive. I don't claim to be nice, but here is a gift: in time, either you'll learn not to waste your time in this manner and let your results speak for themselves, or you'll fade away to insignificance. (here I am, insignificant, and breaking my own rule)
        amedvednikov 4y ago
        Again, you slander me and hundreds of contributors, make strong accusations without any proofs, and now you're saying some crap about being old and that's who you are. Like I said, it's already pretty clear what kind of character you are.
  - ylluminate 4y ago
    I believe I know who the OP is and it's a very sad situation of simple hurt feelings from largely misunderstanding. It's a sad situation actually, but such is life and differences of cultures and human interaction. I feel bad for the OP to have had to have felt so badly that they felt the necessity to post this hit piece vs trying to really address the issues that other community members have gathered from it as actual issues to resolve. So sad.
  - ModernMech 4y ago
    > I think that V developers and contributors are well within their rights to address criticisms of their work by detractors. Indeed you are, but realize that you are also ambassadors for your language, and engaging in petty language war nonsense on public forums doesn’t leave anyone looking great. That’s a problem for V moreso than your detractors, because you are the ones building a reputation for yourselves, while your detractors are relatively anonymous and fungible. They can act anyway they want and it won’t follow them around. On the other hand, everything said here by Vlangers will stick to V and will be brought up on the next thread. You don’t want the reputation of being fanboys who will descend on any thread about V and zealously argue about it for days. But that’s the reputation you’re building here, and it has nothing to do with the behavior or actions of anyone else. That’s something you are actively choosing to do, and it doesn’t make you or your community look good. Again, no one looks great in threads like these, but most people here aren’t building a reputation. V is building a reputation. What do the posts by Vlangers here say about V? It’s not exactly a shining advertisement for your community.
    - Tozen 4y ago
      Yeah, because V supporters should stay silent, and allow detractors free rein to say anything and continuously smear the language and its developers at will. Funny, I notice the supporters of other languages don't seem to follow such advice. They make strong defenses and advocate for the languages they like, anywhere and everywhere, including on even this thread. If anything, V supporters might want to be more vocal and show their support (which can be done in various ways), to counter what's going on. It doesn't work to stay quiet and let bullies keep slapping a person around. They incorrectly interpret it as a sign to continue.
      - ModernMech 4y ago
        Listen, you do you. I’m just letting you know how you come across to others. Maybe you think you’re defending V here but you’re doing the language and community a grave disservice, IMO. Others have given the V community the same advice, and have been for years, so it’s not just me. But as long as you’re here on HN could you please at least follow this community’s guidelines? Several of your posts have been flagged for containing personal attacks, and accusations of bad faith and gaslighting are not well-received here. If you’re going to continue commenting, please just make your comments substantive. A strong defense of V would not include accusing others of bad faith because they didn’t file a bug report of GitHub.
- amedvednikov 4y ago
  You made a very strong accusation. Please list the things that were declared finished before even starting on them.