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And these systems exist because sellers do fraud too, merchants that don't ship after taking payment, etc. With irreversible payments through crypto you are jus

And these systems exist because sellers do fraud too, merchants that don't ship after taking payment, etc. With irreversible payments through crypto you are just pushing all the risk on customers. That will never fly.

rglullis 4y ago
If the customer does not trust the merchant, they simply don't make the payment with crypto. Why, oh why is it so hard to understand the concept of multiple alternatives?
- bryanlarsen 4y ago
  Every retailer with a median transaction size under $20 hates credit cards. Yet with rare exception they all take cards. The customer chooses the mechanism, not the merchant. To best credit cards you'll have to be more customer friendly.
  - rglullis 4y ago
    Come to Berlin and marvel at how many cash-only shops we have. And if you are talking about internet retailers, can we make an exercise to think of how many new businesses would be viable if transactions of 20 cents were a thing?
    - scatters 4y ago
      Why is that? Is Berlin more prone to credit card fraud than usual for Europe?
      - rglullis 4y ago
        Two explanations I've heard: (1) small-shop owners simply do not want to pay the fees to card processors and (2) people are more privacy-minded here and distrustful of both the government and the banks, so they don't use credit/debit cards for purchases as often.
    - elondaits 4y ago
      10 years ago I remember either MediaMarkt or Saturn (large electronics/ home appliance stores) not taking credit cards. Now not only most businesses in Berlin take credit cards (I saw a couple of cash-only, for sure)… I found a couple of “electronic payments only” ones.
      - rglullis 4y ago
        A lot of shops started to accepted cards because of Covid restrictions, leading to the point of "contactless transactions". Now that restrictions are being lifted, smaller shops are going back to cash only or putting high minimums.
- vorpalhex 4y ago
  If you don't trust the customer, don't take their business.
  - rglullis 4y ago
    Right, shoplifting doesn't exist. Movie theaters run around profitably by getting people to pay whatever they want. They even let them bring their own food. And banks give you a mortgage just because you look like such a trustworthy dude.
    - vorpalhex 4y ago
      How does crypto solve shoplifting? Banks do credit worthiness checks as part of business. Movie theaters actually do keep a banned list and enforce it.
      - rglullis 4y ago
        My comment was just meant to show the absurd of "not making business if you don't trust the customer"
        vorpalhex 4y ago
        But that is literally what your examples are doing! Either not doing business because of lost trust or establishing trust before giving money.
        rglullis 4y ago
        No. What I am saying is that for the majority of cases, there is no "trust" involved. There is a protocol that ensures that the exchange occurs properly, regardless of any trust relationship between customer and seller.
  - TheOtherHobbes 4y ago
    How are you supposed to know which customers are trustworty and which aren't?

rglullis 4y ago

If the customer does not trust the merchant, they simply don't make the payment with crypto. Why, oh why is it so hard to understand the concept of multiple alternatives?

bryanlarsen 4y ago
Every retailer with a median transaction size under $20 hates credit cards. Yet with rare exception they all take cards. The customer chooses the mechanism, not the merchant. To best credit cards you'll have to be more customer friendly.
- rglullis 4y ago
  Come to Berlin and marvel at how many cash-only shops we have. And if you are talking about internet retailers, can we make an exercise to think of how many new businesses would be viable if transactions of 20 cents were a thing?
  - scatters 4y ago
    Why is that? Is Berlin more prone to credit card fraud than usual for Europe?
    - rglullis 4y ago
      Two explanations I've heard: (1) small-shop owners simply do not want to pay the fees to card processors and (2) people are more privacy-minded here and distrustful of both the government and the banks, so they don't use credit/debit cards for purchases as often.
  - elondaits 4y ago
    10 years ago I remember either MediaMarkt or Saturn (large electronics/ home appliance stores) not taking credit cards. Now not only most businesses in Berlin take credit cards (I saw a couple of cash-only, for sure)… I found a couple of “electronic payments only” ones.
    - rglullis 4y ago
      A lot of shops started to accepted cards because of Covid restrictions, leading to the point of "contactless transactions". Now that restrictions are being lifted, smaller shops are going back to cash only or putting high minimums.
vorpalhex 4y ago
If you don't trust the customer, don't take their business.
- rglullis 4y ago
  Right, shoplifting doesn't exist. Movie theaters run around profitably by getting people to pay whatever they want. They even let them bring their own food. And banks give you a mortgage just because you look like such a trustworthy dude.
  - vorpalhex 4y ago
    How does crypto solve shoplifting? Banks do credit worthiness checks as part of business. Movie theaters actually do keep a banned list and enforce it.
    - rglullis 4y ago
      My comment was just meant to show the absurd of "not making business if you don't trust the customer"
      - vorpalhex 4y ago
        But that is literally what your examples are doing! Either not doing business because of lost trust or establishing trust before giving money.
        rglullis 4y ago
        No. What I am saying is that for the majority of cases, there is no "trust" involved. There is a protocol that ensures that the exchange occurs properly, regardless of any trust relationship between customer and seller.
- TheOtherHobbes 4y ago
  How are you supposed to know which customers are trustworty and which aren't?