4 ms·

I think Ive was a fantastic and visionary industrial designer, but when he debuted as the design czar over software as well I think Apple’s UX kinda entered a n

by hbosch 4y ago

I think Ive was a fantastic and visionary industrial designer, but when he debuted as the design czar over software as well I think Apple’s UX kinda entered a nosedive. The actual designers “on the ground” there really pulled iOS through those times and I agree with other commenter that nowadays Apple is really so much better.

etempleton 4y ago
Yes, it felt like Ive had too much unilateral decision making power. Steve loved the push and pull of constructive arguments and disagreements and famously lamented that even he didn’t always get his way if others had compelling arguments. Ive is and was a designer. Design and—more specifically, his design asthetic—always came first under his tenure post Steve.
- alexsereno 4y ago
  He needed to have Fadell around to argue with, but Tim prefers an office style with less tension. Which has been great for shareholders, bad for consumer design tho. It’s hard to know what is more “right” since more people have apple products than ever before, but wow I love my post-Ive Mac a lot more, and design across the board has focused a bit on function w/ Craig getting a bigger role
  - lupire 4y ago
    Apple's post-Jobs success has been the snowball effect of iPhone capturing more of the market. Mac suffered a lot under Jobsless Ive (Cook doesn't care about product one way or the other), surviving the butterfly / touchbar winter because customers were able to keep their old Retina laptops, customers groaned and beared with lemon laptops for a few years, and desktop declined in overall relevance (except gaming where Apple never had a presence anyway), and started to recover in the post-butterfly/post-touchbar/M1 era.
  - etempleton 4y ago
    From what I have read Fadell didn’t seem to have a lot of internal fans, and there were some major software issues under his leadership, but there is no doubt he has clout with Jobs and provided a different perspective. Jobs was always willing to play the role of tie breaker that I am not sure Cook is comfortable in, so it makes sense to have a more harmonious leadership team that can come to a consensus more often than not without an intermediator. There does seem to be more collaboration and sensible compromises from all internal stakeholders than at any time at Apple, at least that is how it feels as an end user. Apple products of the last few years have less head scratching omissions and/or design/engineering decision. The MacBook Pro from 2016 to 2021 is the embodiment of that weirdness.
raverbashing 4y ago
Yes, he's a great physical product designer. But to bring that, and apply the same principles into SW just doesn't make sense
- ben_w 4y ago
  I’m not so sure he’s even that, I think the hockey puck iMac mouse was his?
  - lupire 4y ago
    He's a great physical aesthetic designer. He's terrible at human interfaces, hardware or software.
    - azemetre 4y ago
      I feel like you can't be a great designer if you neglect human interfaces, at that point you're just an artist. Nothing wrong with that, but good design it is not.
  - tchalla 4y ago
    I’m not sure if having some badly designed products doesn’t make one a great physical product designer. It’s completely possible to be a great product designer with few bad products. I’m not arguing that Ive is a great designer. Ok just saying that the iMac hockey puck mouse doesn’t invalidate that claim.
    - ben_w 4y ago
      Fair. I use it as an example of uncontroversially bad design, and his most infamous mistake being ages ago does count in his favour (even if the dead cockroach charging mechanism of the modern mouse is also his), even though I chose that example in part because people argue both ways about his more recent design choices. Myself, I do not like any design choice I’ve heard attributed to him, but that’s not enough by itself either.
blackhaz 4y ago
- rafram 4y ago
  > gay U2 album artwork … (Your car playing music from your phone every time it connects is a problem with your car’s UX, not your phone’s.)

by hbosch 4y ago

etempleton 4y ago

Yes, it felt like Ive had too much unilateral decision making power. Steve loved the push and pull of constructive arguments and disagreements and famously lamented that even he didn’t always get his way if others had compelling arguments. Ive is and was a designer. Design and—more specifically, his design asthetic—always came first under his tenure post Steve.

alexsereno 4y ago
He needed to have Fadell around to argue with, but Tim prefers an office style with less tension. Which has been great for shareholders, bad for consumer design tho. It’s hard to know what is more “right” since more people have apple products than ever before, but wow I love my post-Ive Mac a lot more, and design across the board has focused a bit on function w/ Craig getting a bigger role
- lupire 4y ago
  Apple's post-Jobs success has been the snowball effect of iPhone capturing more of the market. Mac suffered a lot under Jobsless Ive (Cook doesn't care about product one way or the other), surviving the butterfly / touchbar winter because customers were able to keep their old Retina laptops, customers groaned and beared with lemon laptops for a few years, and desktop declined in overall relevance (except gaming where Apple never had a presence anyway), and started to recover in the post-butterfly/post-touchbar/M1 era.
- etempleton 4y ago
  From what I have read Fadell didn’t seem to have a lot of internal fans, and there were some major software issues under his leadership, but there is no doubt he has clout with Jobs and provided a different perspective. Jobs was always willing to play the role of tie breaker that I am not sure Cook is comfortable in, so it makes sense to have a more harmonious leadership team that can come to a consensus more often than not without an intermediator. There does seem to be more collaboration and sensible compromises from all internal stakeholders than at any time at Apple, at least that is how it feels as an end user. Apple products of the last few years have less head scratching omissions and/or design/engineering decision. The MacBook Pro from 2016 to 2021 is the embodiment of that weirdness.

raverbashing 4y ago

Yes, he's a great physical product designer. But to bring that, and apply the same principles into SW just doesn't make sense

ben_w 4y ago
I’m not so sure he’s even that, I think the hockey puck iMac mouse was his?
- lupire 4y ago
  He's a great physical aesthetic designer. He's terrible at human interfaces, hardware or software.
  - azemetre 4y ago
    I feel like you can't be a great designer if you neglect human interfaces, at that point you're just an artist. Nothing wrong with that, but good design it is not.
- tchalla 4y ago
  I’m not sure if having some badly designed products doesn’t make one a great physical product designer. It’s completely possible to be a great product designer with few bad products. I’m not arguing that Ive is a great designer. Ok just saying that the iMac hockey puck mouse doesn’t invalidate that claim.
  - ben_w 4y ago
    Fair. I use it as an example of uncontroversially bad design, and his most infamous mistake being ages ago does count in his favour (even if the dead cockroach charging mechanism of the modern mouse is also his), even though I chose that example in part because people argue both ways about his more recent design choices. Myself, I do not like any design choice I’ve heard attributed to him, but that’s not enough by itself either.

blackhaz 4y ago

rafram 4y ago
> gay U2 album artwork … (Your car playing music from your phone every time it connects is a problem with your car’s UX, not your phone’s.)