6 ms·

This sounds like firing people for concerted action, which is one of two illegal reasons for termination in the US (the other being discrimination). I suspect t

This sounds like firing people for concerted action, which is one of two illegal reasons for termination in the US (the other being discrimination). I suspect the NLRB will reward them with an offer to get their jobs back or back wages.

Throwawayaerlei 4y ago
Since absolutely nothing could go wrong with disgruntled employees making and launching rockets it has better be back wages, or something that limits the actual, physical damage they could cause. "Rocket science" has a reputation because it is not a forgiving domain.
- kieselguhr_kid 4y ago
  It's usually back wages, but that's up to the fired party.
johncearls 4y ago
Depends on the roles of the people who were fired. > the NLRA is restricted to nonsupervisory employees, said Kate Bischoff, And whether the statements themselves qualify. According to WSJ , https://www.wsj.com/articles/spacex-fires-employees-involved-in-letter-critical-of-musk-company-11655471021 https://www.wsj.com/articles/spacex-fires-employees-involved....
- kieselguhr_kid 4y ago
  Anti-harrassment campaigns have historically been qualified statements. You're correct that they have to be nonsupervisory workers.
lelandfe 4y ago
> an action has to be concerted (certainly the case here) From the article, quoting a law professor. I'd never heard the term "concerted action," so I looked up the relevant text of the National Labor Relations Act. It says that employees have the right to engage in concerted actions "for the purpose of collective bargaining or other mutual aid or protection..."[0] I am not familiar with this law; could someone explain why employees complaining in a circulated letter falls into this category? I'm (pleasantly!) surprised this was a legally protected action. [0] https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/29/157 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/29/157
- kieselguhr_kid 4y ago
  This is the cornerstone of union protections under the NLRA. The act defines a union as two or more workers who undertake action together in order to improve their working conditions. In theory, this protects them from retaliation. In practice, labor law violations occur all the time and there is very little recourse. The NLRB awards can take a long time to act and has no power to levy punitive damages, so there's a very small penalty for criminal behavior on the company's part, compared to the cost savings of union busting.
  - awillen 4y ago
    There must be some sort of limits to what's protected though, right? SpaceX said they were fired for sending company-wide emails badgering people to sign stuff, and I'd have to imagine there's some line when it comes to using company time/resources to organize. If you grab a megaphone and start disrupting a whole factory floor by using it to try to get people to organize for better rights while you're supposed to be working, that seems like it ought to be a fireable offense, where organizing at someone's house outside of working hours clearly should not.
    - NicoJuicy 4y ago
      What cost does an email have company wide? Most people receive a bunch of emails every day and it's never considered as cost.
    - kieselguhr_kid 4y ago
      > If you grab a megaphone and start disrupting a whole factory floor by using it to try to get people to organize for better rights while you're supposed to be working, that seems like it ought to be a fireable offense, where organizing at someone's house outside of working hours clearly should not. Can you organize on company time? It depends - can you discuss literally anything other than work while at work? Then yes. If not, then you'd have to organize off the clock but not necessarily off-site. There are exceptions for reasonability sake (a nurse can't interrupt an organ transplant to organize, for instance) but sending company-wide emails strikes me as sufficiently non-disruptive as to be protected.

Throwawayaerlei 4y ago

Since absolutely nothing could go wrong with disgruntled employees making and launching rockets it has better be back wages, or something that limits the actual, physical damage they could cause. "Rocket science" has a reputation because it is not a forgiving domain.

kieselguhr_kid 4y ago
It's usually back wages, but that's up to the fired party.

johncearls 4y ago

Depends on the roles of the people who were fired. > the NLRA is restricted to nonsupervisory employees, said Kate Bischoff, And whether the statements themselves qualify. According to WSJ , https://www.wsj.com/articles/spacex-fires-employees-involved-in-letter-critical-of-musk-company-11655471021 https://www.wsj.com/articles/spacex-fires-employees-involved....

kieselguhr_kid 4y ago
Anti-harrassment campaigns have historically been qualified statements. You're correct that they have to be nonsupervisory workers.

lelandfe 4y ago

> an action has to be concerted (certainly the case here) From the article, quoting a law professor. I'd never heard the term "concerted action," so I looked up the relevant text of the National Labor Relations Act. It says that employees have the right to engage in concerted actions "for the purpose of collective bargaining or other mutual aid or protection..."[0] I am not familiar with this law; could someone explain why employees complaining in a circulated letter falls into this category? I'm (pleasantly!) surprised this was a legally protected action. [0] https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/29/157 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/29/157

kieselguhr_kid 4y ago
This is the cornerstone of union protections under the NLRA. The act defines a union as two or more workers who undertake action together in order to improve their working conditions. In theory, this protects them from retaliation. In practice, labor law violations occur all the time and there is very little recourse. The NLRB awards can take a long time to act and has no power to levy punitive damages, so there's a very small penalty for criminal behavior on the company's part, compared to the cost savings of union busting.
- awillen 4y ago
  There must be some sort of limits to what's protected though, right? SpaceX said they were fired for sending company-wide emails badgering people to sign stuff, and I'd have to imagine there's some line when it comes to using company time/resources to organize. If you grab a megaphone and start disrupting a whole factory floor by using it to try to get people to organize for better rights while you're supposed to be working, that seems like it ought to be a fireable offense, where organizing at someone's house outside of working hours clearly should not.
  - NicoJuicy 4y ago
    What cost does an email have company wide? Most people receive a bunch of emails every day and it's never considered as cost.
  - kieselguhr_kid 4y ago
    > If you grab a megaphone and start disrupting a whole factory floor by using it to try to get people to organize for better rights while you're supposed to be working, that seems like it ought to be a fireable offense, where organizing at someone's house outside of working hours clearly should not. Can you organize on company time? It depends - can you discuss literally anything other than work while at work? Then yes. If not, then you'd have to organize off the clock but not necessarily off-site. There are exceptions for reasonability sake (a nurse can't interrupt an organ transplant to organize, for instance) but sending company-wide emails strikes me as sufficiently non-disruptive as to be protected.