3 ms·

This is what we call an "Ad Hominem Tu Quoque.” How does it validate or invalidate his words?

by raganwald 15y ago

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- caf 15y ago
  raganwald is agreeing with Dave Winer in arguing against the personal ridiculing of RMS. The validity of this argument does not hinge on whether Dave Winer is being hypocritical in making it or not; one can be a hypocrite and still be correct. In other words, if you want to argue against raganwald and Dave Winer, that RMS should be ridiculed, you need to come up with something that logically supports that, not just assert "Dave Winer is a bully also". This assertion does not advance your argument.
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- ender7 15y ago
  http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Ad+Hominem+Tu+Quoque http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Ad+Hominem+Tu+Quoque [edit] This relates to your point because you are literally one click away from knowing the definition of such phrases. It is no great burden to ask that you occasionally Google phrases that people use, especially when there is not better way of saying it.
- raganwald 15y ago
  Thank you for your feedback. You may find the following interesting: http://www.paulgraham.com/disagree.html http://www.paulgraham.com/disagree.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem I used the expression specifically because it has been much discussed here on Hacker News. Another of historical interest is: А у вас негров линчуют http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_you_are_lynching_Negroes http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_you_are_lynching_Negroes
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- mturmon 15y ago
  I'm allergic to Latin when used to impress, but you should understand (and accept) that a lot of the prior work around rhetoric and argumentation comes from Greek and Latin sources. See also: modus ponens, QED, reductio ad absurdum, a fortiori. All commonly used.
- saraid216 15y ago
  Ignorance is not a sufficient excuse to feel "bullied and ridiculed". If you can't be bothered to educate yourself, then why are you worth talking to? If the timing is poor for looking it up, politely stating that you don't understand the jargon and would like an explanation is a fair response. Saying, "I don't know this information, and the fact that you have it is offensive to me," is the very essence of anti-intellectualism.

This is what we call an "Ad Hominem Tu Quoque.” How does it validate or invalidate his words?

deleted 15y ago

[deleted]

caf 15y ago
raganwald is agreeing with Dave Winer in arguing against the personal ridiculing of RMS. The validity of this argument does not hinge on whether Dave Winer is being hypocritical in making it or not; one can be a hypocrite and still be correct. In other words, if you want to argue against raganwald and Dave Winer, that RMS should be ridiculed, you need to come up with something that logically supports that, not just assert "Dave Winer is a bully also". This assertion does not advance your argument.
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ender7 15y ago
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Ad+Hominem+Tu+Quoque http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Ad+Hominem+Tu+Quoque [edit] This relates to your point because you are literally one click away from knowing the definition of such phrases. It is no great burden to ask that you occasionally Google phrases that people use, especially when there is not better way of saying it.
raganwald 15y ago
Thank you for your feedback. You may find the following interesting: http://www.paulgraham.com/disagree.html http://www.paulgraham.com/disagree.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem I used the expression specifically because it has been much discussed here on Hacker News. Another of historical interest is: А у вас негров линчуют http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_you_are_lynching_Negroes http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_you_are_lynching_Negroes
- deleted 15y ago
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mturmon 15y ago
I'm allergic to Latin when used to impress, but you should understand (and accept) that a lot of the prior work around rhetoric and argumentation comes from Greek and Latin sources. See also: modus ponens, QED, reductio ad absurdum, a fortiori. All commonly used.
saraid216 15y ago
Ignorance is not a sufficient excuse to feel "bullied and ridiculed". If you can't be bothered to educate yourself, then why are you worth talking to? If the timing is poor for looking it up, politely stating that you don't understand the jargon and would like an explanation is a fair response. Saying, "I don't know this information, and the fact that you have it is offensive to me," is the very essence of anti-intellectualism.