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I have several fantastic things that I love doing and work makes it very hard for me to pursue them. One of them is philosophy. There is a great deal of benefi

by kubb 4y ago

I have several fantastic things that I love doing and work makes it very hard for me to pursue them. One of them is philosophy. There is a great deal of benefit and pleasure that a person can derive from learning about about and understanding the arguments that have been made across the centuries. Another is physical activity. It feels great to move your body, it makes you so much happier than sitting at a desk. Another are video games that stimulate your brain in an amazing way. Another is spending time close to nature. Another is talking and listening to people. When I come across a person that tells me "But what would you do if you had more free time?", I realize it's like this because people can't imagine a different world. They don't know how to live freely. So they willfully fight to maintain this broken world, insisting that it's the only way. So I do my work, try to get it done as fast as possible. I earn a lot, but my work makes no difference to anyone's life. If I could get 1/10 of what I earn but without having to perform all this theatre, it would be better for everyone.

s1artibartfast 4y ago
>If I could get 1/10 of what I earn but without having to perform all this theatre, it would be better for everyone. What does this mean? You would take a 90% pay cut for 90% less work? Seems pretty doable
- kubb 4y ago
  Not really, no company hires you for 10 or 20% in software engineering, while still paying enough that you could sustain yourself. The minimum is 80%, because it still the most of your time, so it seems reasonable in the work oriented society.
  - s1artibartfast 4y ago
    >no company hires you for 10 or 20% in software engineering, while still paying enough that you could sustain yourself. I agree that most employers wont offer 10% positions, but my feeling is that someone can work 10-20% for 10% pay by gigging pretty easily. Whether 10% pay is sustainable is a different question, but I was under the impression that you thought it was. If you are looking for 10% work and 50% pay, I agree that is much less attainable.
    - thr0wawayf00 4y ago
      Being responsible for your own insurance while gigging makes this seem less feasible given the cost.
      - s1artibartfast 4y ago
        I agree, but insurance is part of the pay. Im a bit skeptical that the poster would actually be happy with 10% pay, which would probably not cover the insurance, shelter, and food they are used to. That said, I am open minded and there are certainly people that do live on 10% of a SWE salary. You can rent a mobile home in a low CoL area, get on Medicaid, and have a lot of free time. Some people do exactly this, but it is a pretty rare breed.
        jeremyjh 4y ago
        Most people cannot consider taking the status hit from that even if objectively they’d be much happier.
        heretogetout 4y ago
        I'd absolutely accept 10% pay for a four hour schedule, but I have been working for a long time and have built up enough investments to live on that and gains. It's nearly early retirement. I don't think I'd do it if I was young, though.
        kubb 4y ago
        Realistically, I would need 30% of my pay to live a modest, but safe life.
        s1artibartfast 4y ago
        I would make sure your accounting for Social Security and health insurance but if that's what you want you should totally do it.
  - theptip 4y ago
    You can definitely get contracting gigs (Upwork at the bottom tier) or consulting work to work only 10-20% hours. Depending on your skill set you might find it easier to do “blocks” of 20-hour weeks to align with client needs, then take blocks of time off. It’s doable, but not on a standard employment contract.
    - kubb 4y ago
      Thanks, this is constructive and useful! I have no idea how to look into that, but if I manage to land something like that, I could reduce my working week. No idea how to deal with the uncertainty of being able to get enough contracts that pay enough.
tayo42 4y ago
> One of them is philosophy. There is a great deal of benefit and pleasure that a person can derive from learning about about and understanding the arguments that have been made across the centuries. Do you just enjoy reading about it and that's it? Or how do you make philisophy interactive and interesting beyond satisfying curiousites? I got kind of into some sub topics of philosophy, but lost a lot of motivation once i realized no one cares about what you have to say or even really wants to cater to you unless your part of academia
- kubb 4y ago
  I'm learning about the history of ideas and the arguments used to defend or challenge them. Reading philosophical texts is the way to do that. Understanding such a text often is an interactive experience - you formulate your own claims and try to relate then to the argument that the text contains. It's challenging but very satisfying. Nevertheless, it helps to have teachers - joining courses lead by people who learned philosophy in academia is a common way to find them. YMMV, and it depends on what's available to you locally.
- allenu 4y ago
  I can see how it can differ for everyone. For some people, there's value in just learning about new things and not necessarily "exercising" that skill in a community or making a dent in the culture. Think of it like learning to paint or make music, but not necessarily wanting to impacting the art world or becoming a performer.
salt-thrower 4y ago
Thank you for this. I feel the same way. I hate the performative theater of office life. Pretending to care, pretending that our work matters at all. But the pay is great, and I can’t afford to live without it, so… that’s how it goes.
rufus_foreman 4y ago
>> One of them is philosophy. There is a great deal of benefit and pleasure that a person can derive from learning about about and understanding the arguments that have been made across the centuries. >> Another is physical activity. It feels great to move your body, it makes you so much happier than sitting at a desk Maybe you should get a job doing repetitive manual labor. You get plenty of activity and it is completely mindless so you can be thinking about whatever you want. That's how it was for me at least.
- hackerfromthefu 4y ago
  If only they paid well!

by kubb 4y ago

s1artibartfast 4y ago

>If I could get 1/10 of what I earn but without having to perform all this theatre, it would be better for everyone. What does this mean? You would take a 90% pay cut for 90% less work? Seems pretty doable

kubb 4y ago
Not really, no company hires you for 10 or 20% in software engineering, while still paying enough that you could sustain yourself. The minimum is 80%, because it still the most of your time, so it seems reasonable in the work oriented society.
- s1artibartfast 4y ago
  >no company hires you for 10 or 20% in software engineering, while still paying enough that you could sustain yourself. I agree that most employers wont offer 10% positions, but my feeling is that someone can work 10-20% for 10% pay by gigging pretty easily. Whether 10% pay is sustainable is a different question, but I was under the impression that you thought it was. If you are looking for 10% work and 50% pay, I agree that is much less attainable.
  - thr0wawayf00 4y ago
    Being responsible for your own insurance while gigging makes this seem less feasible given the cost.
    - s1artibartfast 4y ago
      I agree, but insurance is part of the pay. Im a bit skeptical that the poster would actually be happy with 10% pay, which would probably not cover the insurance, shelter, and food they are used to. That said, I am open minded and there are certainly people that do live on 10% of a SWE salary. You can rent a mobile home in a low CoL area, get on Medicaid, and have a lot of free time. Some people do exactly this, but it is a pretty rare breed.
      - jeremyjh 4y ago
        Most people cannot consider taking the status hit from that even if objectively they’d be much happier.
      - heretogetout 4y ago
        I'd absolutely accept 10% pay for a four hour schedule, but I have been working for a long time and have built up enough investments to live on that and gains. It's nearly early retirement. I don't think I'd do it if I was young, though.
      - kubb 4y ago
        Realistically, I would need 30% of my pay to live a modest, but safe life.
        s1artibartfast 4y ago
        I would make sure your accounting for Social Security and health insurance but if that's what you want you should totally do it.
- theptip 4y ago
  You can definitely get contracting gigs (Upwork at the bottom tier) or consulting work to work only 10-20% hours. Depending on your skill set you might find it easier to do “blocks” of 20-hour weeks to align with client needs, then take blocks of time off. It’s doable, but not on a standard employment contract.
  - kubb 4y ago
    Thanks, this is constructive and useful! I have no idea how to look into that, but if I manage to land something like that, I could reduce my working week. No idea how to deal with the uncertainty of being able to get enough contracts that pay enough.

tayo42 4y ago

> One of them is philosophy. There is a great deal of benefit and pleasure that a person can derive from learning about about and understanding the arguments that have been made across the centuries. Do you just enjoy reading about it and that's it? Or how do you make philisophy interactive and interesting beyond satisfying curiousites? I got kind of into some sub topics of philosophy, but lost a lot of motivation once i realized no one cares about what you have to say or even really wants to cater to you unless your part of academia

kubb 4y ago
I'm learning about the history of ideas and the arguments used to defend or challenge them. Reading philosophical texts is the way to do that. Understanding such a text often is an interactive experience - you formulate your own claims and try to relate then to the argument that the text contains. It's challenging but very satisfying. Nevertheless, it helps to have teachers - joining courses lead by people who learned philosophy in academia is a common way to find them. YMMV, and it depends on what's available to you locally.
allenu 4y ago
I can see how it can differ for everyone. For some people, there's value in just learning about new things and not necessarily "exercising" that skill in a community or making a dent in the culture. Think of it like learning to paint or make music, but not necessarily wanting to impacting the art world or becoming a performer.

salt-thrower 4y ago

Thank you for this. I feel the same way. I hate the performative theater of office life. Pretending to care, pretending that our work matters at all. But the pay is great, and I can’t afford to live without it, so… that’s how it goes.

rufus_foreman 4y ago

>> One of them is philosophy. There is a great deal of benefit and pleasure that a person can derive from learning about about and understanding the arguments that have been made across the centuries. >> Another is physical activity. It feels great to move your body, it makes you so much happier than sitting at a desk Maybe you should get a job doing repetitive manual labor. You get plenty of activity and it is completely mindless so you can be thinking about whatever you want. That's how it was for me at least.

hackerfromthefu 4y ago
If only they paid well!