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You can short Bitcoin on larger exchanges

highwaylights 4y ago
But then you’re trusting those exchanges to be able and/or willing to exit you. There’s no reliable way to short it. (Unless the exchanges let you withdraw the fiat for your positions while they’re open?)
- dubswithus 4y ago
  So every business associated with crypto is untrustworthy? It’s hilarious that the anti bitcoiners are so anti bitcoin that it prevents them from using any of the trustworthy exchanges to short it. Exchanges make huge amounts of money in bear and bull markets.
  - highwaylights 4y ago
    > So every business associated with crypto is untrustworthy? Yes. If it's provenance is unverifiable (it is), and there's no evidence that the money being pumped into it exists (there isn't), then anything even adjacent to it is implicitly exposed to counter-party risk and therefore untrustworthy. This is without even considering the fact that there's substantial evidence to suggest that most of the money being pumped in does not exist (cough tether cough). Exchanges make money while the plates are spinning, and they make significantly less in bear markets, none of which guarantees your exit. If a bank fails it's dissolved and guaranteed deposits get first preference when administrators sift through the wreckage. If a crypto exchange even looks like it might fai.. oops boating accident. What's hilarious to me is that Saylor still gets asked on live television if he's worried about a margin call. He laughs it off and says something like "oh no, we're not close to that and very liquid" which really means "lol no I'll just say oopsie doopsie some intern lost the key". The people that lent to him are beyond belief stupid. How are you all still drinking the koolaid?
- jcfrei 4y ago
  You can short it using CME futures. Collateral is in USD and insured by various safeguards in case counter parties cant meet margin requirements. You can short it as reliably as any other asset.
  - highwaylights 4y ago
    Strong disagree. It regularly moves wildly faster than any other commonly traded asset. There is no possible way that any margin requirement could cover it, because no-one is going to stake 90% down for 10% margin, which is what you'd need to guarantee against a crash - especially if you're putting up USD for collateral.

But then you’re trusting those exchanges to be able and/or willing to exit you. There’s no reliable way to short it. (Unless the exchanges let you withdraw the fiat for your positions while they’re open?)

dubswithus 4y ago
So every business associated with crypto is untrustworthy? It’s hilarious that the anti bitcoiners are so anti bitcoin that it prevents them from using any of the trustworthy exchanges to short it. Exchanges make huge amounts of money in bear and bull markets.
- highwaylights 4y ago
  > So every business associated with crypto is untrustworthy? Yes. If it's provenance is unverifiable (it is), and there's no evidence that the money being pumped into it exists (there isn't), then anything even adjacent to it is implicitly exposed to counter-party risk and therefore untrustworthy. This is without even considering the fact that there's substantial evidence to suggest that most of the money being pumped in does not exist (cough tether cough). Exchanges make money while the plates are spinning, and they make significantly less in bear markets, none of which guarantees your exit. If a bank fails it's dissolved and guaranteed deposits get first preference when administrators sift through the wreckage. If a crypto exchange even looks like it might fai.. oops boating accident. What's hilarious to me is that Saylor still gets asked on live television if he's worried about a margin call. He laughs it off and says something like "oh no, we're not close to that and very liquid" which really means "lol no I'll just say oopsie doopsie some intern lost the key". The people that lent to him are beyond belief stupid. How are you all still drinking the koolaid?
jcfrei 4y ago
You can short it using CME futures. Collateral is in USD and insured by various safeguards in case counter parties cant meet margin requirements. You can short it as reliably as any other asset.
- highwaylights 4y ago
  Strong disagree. It regularly moves wildly faster than any other commonly traded asset. There is no possible way that any margin requirement could cover it, because no-one is going to stake 90% down for 10% margin, which is what you'd need to guarantee against a crash - especially if you're putting up USD for collateral.